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what's up everybody thanks for joining

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us this is Sean and this is Jay and

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[Music]

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a little due respect to the Air Force I

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believe that some of them will prove to

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[Music]

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what's up Jade how you doing it's been a

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long time I haven't seen you since

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Wednesday it's clear we have somebody

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important backstage that's right because

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I don't think we've had this many people

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watching live right away

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oh don't tell me how many people are

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there I don't even want yeah no no I'm

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playing around uh it's great to see

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everybody in the chat I haven't looked

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at the chat yet oh there's the chat yeah

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everybody

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I've been trying to get Mr Dr Gary Nolan

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on the show for a while this is the

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first time both of our schedules it

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could could make it happen so I'm

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looking uh very much forward to this

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um Jay and I had a show on Wednesday

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that went really well too so check that

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out

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um subscribe all that kind of fun stuff

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uh if you have a question uh we can

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always try to fit it in

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um put it in all caps so I can notice it

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that would be great and yeah so

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and

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yeah yeah

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100 just do your intro and we can rock

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and roll with Dr Nolan all right

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wonderful Dr Gary Nolan has published

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over 300 research articles is the holder

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of 40 US patents and has been honored as

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one of the top 25 inventors at Stanford

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University among other boards that he

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serves on Dr Nolan's on the Strategic

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and scientific Advisory Board of

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Copernicus space Corporation and on the

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research team of the Galileo project

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Gary it's absolutely great to have you

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here on the show today

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great very nice to be with you and

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everybody wow quite a few people in the

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chat there

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yeah I'm sure you you're quite used to

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it you know which is funny

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like I was just something I wanted to

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say right away which is like I was

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kind of looking you up on YouTube seeing

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what your your latest interviews were

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and I found

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some of your

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um like lectures from about five years

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ago where where you're getting into

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extremely deep stuff as far as you know

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cancer cell research and all that and

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you know it went way above my head

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although I still tried to pay attention

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I did notice a flying saucer joke that

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you threw into one of them which was

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great

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um well I'm pretty well known in the

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community science Community for my

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outside interests

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and uh these days I get introduced a lot

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not only as all the you know math and

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cancer work that we do but uh they

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always say Ask Gary a question about

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UFOs

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well I mean quite the giggles of it you

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used to get

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the but the point of it is is is if

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anyone like doubts

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um I guess the topic or the fact that

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you know it can be taken seriously like

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they should first go and try to watch

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one of those videos and then afterwards

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you know

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seriousness of of the topic because it's

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clear that you're a brilliant man uh

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you're you're super smart

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um I don't know how you have room for

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all that information in your head it's

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amazing

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um so thank you for taking this topic

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seriously because it desperately needs

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it and you know kind of catapulting off

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of that it's clear that if we were to

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arrange some sort of uh standard of

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evidence so to speak for for you know

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UFOs are the phenomenon uh you would be

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a good guy to uh grasp what that means

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and and how to put that together what

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what are your thoughts on standards of

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evidence in this field and how we should

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approach it and continue on studying it

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so I think the the standard of evidence

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discussion needs a lot more play because

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you know different communities of

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Interest have different standards of

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what they consider real whether you're

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talking about a religious environment or

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whether you're talking about philosophy

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science or just the the lay public and

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by lay public I don't mean uninformed I

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mean I mean people who are you know

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professionally informed intelligent

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individuals who don't necessarily speak

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let's say the language of science

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um you know and and one of the things

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that I think uh the field

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often gets derided uh with is this

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notion of well that's just an anecdote

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that's just a one-off story an

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anecdote's an interesting word because

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to a scientist especially to somebody

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working in clinical Sciences such as

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what what I do

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um and anecdote is actually a real thing

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it's data you can actually have an

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anecdote about let's say a patient who

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comes in with a particular set of

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symptoms or symptomologies and you might

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not necessarily know what the disease is

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but you will write up what's called a

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case study and that case study can get

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published in some of the very top

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journals because it's taken as data

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um and when you have enough anecdotes it

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becomes a syndrome uh because that now

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you've got something which is common a

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pattern which is seen across multiple

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individuals and so like like the Havana

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syndrome so to speak yeah syndrome

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um or like observations that people have

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been making over the last 60 or hundreds

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of years uh things that they see in the

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sky and uh phenomenon Etc

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um and once you recognize enough of a

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pattern that you can discern let's say a

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cause uh then it can become a disease

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right which now goes into the ICD codes

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uh the the international diagnostic

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codes or IDC codes uh where now it

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becomes something which is a formal part

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of the medical literature and so I think

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similarly we need to frankly turn the

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tables uh in this discussion around what

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is an anecdote what's a story Etc

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collect enough stories uh enough

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anecdotes with similar patterns and

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people have done this it doesn't it

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doesn't mean that it hasn't already been

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done but I think we need to press the

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case and flip the narrative here where

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we're no longer in the position of

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having to explain each individual

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anecdote or allowing one anecdote to be

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used to suppress or dismiss all of the

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others and say look you

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skeptic not a pseudoseptic like Nick

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West who frankly would be thrown out of

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any scientific any real scientific uh

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um discussion uh on his basically on his

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backside because of the ridiculous

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things that he comes up with on a

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regular basis and I like Nick but you

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know I just don't think he's part of the

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conversation anymore

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um I think that we we turn this around

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and start inquiring of the Skeptics okay

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look here's the data you explain it

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don't dismiss it don't dismiss all

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thousand events as seagulls or you know

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some other

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uh ridiculous dismissal you explain it

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and tell me what you think about it

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because I found in the Sciences when I

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take

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evidence and incidence of UFO phenomenon

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Etc and I put them in down in a very

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straightforward way and have my

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colleagues think about it it changes

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their minds it makes them it doesn't

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make them a Believer I don't believe in

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Believers it but it makes them start to

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question their own assumptions about

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what the world is and so I think that is

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the approach that we as either lay

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people interested individuals need to

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start to to push this and and no longer

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be on the defensive be a little bit more

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on the offense

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on this sure and I you know it's

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interesting that you you mentioned that

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as far as

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um you know in the scientific world how

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the antidotes matter and you know you

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could even say that for our Judicial

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System

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um you know if you have 20 people that

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all say the same thing about a certain

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person doing something I'm pretty sure

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that guy's going to be convicted as

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guilty

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um so yeah I I can see what you're

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saying there why do you think that

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hasn't happened yet considering that we

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have thousands and thousands and

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thousands of reports already well I

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think it that data needs to be compiled

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uh and put in some reasonable

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publication somewhere so that you can

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point to it and and do not ever give an

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inch on

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the you know the results that might be

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in a paper and say explain it and if you

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can't explain it I don't want to listen

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to you anymore because you have nothing

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else to say that's a that's a challenge

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in science to say to say you explain

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this or you have nothing further to to

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comment on I mean that's just it's just

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the way it works in science like look

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here it is it's in the literature if you

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can't explain it then you just have to

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step out of the conversation and you're

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not part of the discussion any longer

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but but it's it's it's not just telling

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the skeptic this it's also getting this

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across to the media the media has to

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understand that they are as much in

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control of the outcome of the discussion

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as is any individual scientist and that

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they have to be held to the same

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standard and if they're not going to be

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held to that standard such as barns that

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ridiculous reporter at the New York

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Times or wherever he is uh it's like if

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if you're going to play those kinds of

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games you need to be called out you

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should be called out as not a journalist

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not adhering to Scientific or

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journalistic standards uh and basically

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that you're just a propagandist

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and so if you're not willing to to play

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by the rules of your own profession like

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scientists I say look if you're if

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you're going to throw ideas out before

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they're even considered you have

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basically broken the oath that you took

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when you got your PhD or your md and so

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therefore you're no longer relevant to

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the discussion similarly for journalists

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if you're not going to play by the

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correct journalistic rules then you're

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not part of the conversation anymore

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you're you're you're a dinosaur you're

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archaic and uh you're not playing with

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the appropriate rules of rhetoric

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and

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then no longer engage with them stop

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engaging with Midwest give him the

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oxygen that he needs

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yeah no I completely agree with that go

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ahead Jay

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yeah I I think that makes perfect sense

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and I appreciate you saying that uh as a

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balancing Point I've got a question here

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um from somebody we both know uh Miss

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Leslie Kane uh do you feel there is a

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legitimate national security issue here

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00:11:45,710 --> 00:11:44,100
and a related question along those lines

279
00:11:48,050 --> 00:11:45,720
as a balancing point to what we're

280
00:11:49,850 --> 00:11:48,060
talking about was the news media Etc do

281
00:11:52,130 --> 00:11:49,860
you feel it's a good thing for the

282
00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:52,140
public to know everything or is it

283
00:11:56,030 --> 00:11:54,000
better to protect them from certain

284
00:11:57,350 --> 00:11:56,040
information

285
00:11:58,670 --> 00:11:57,360
well I mean it depends on the

286
00:12:00,829 --> 00:11:58,680
information we're protecting them from

287
00:12:03,769 --> 00:12:00,839
but I always err on the side of of

288
00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:03,779
transparency I mean you know in in the

289
00:12:08,750 --> 00:12:06,959
Sciences uh it used to be that people

290
00:12:10,610 --> 00:12:08,760
would keep some of the most important

291
00:12:12,889 --> 00:12:10,620
aspects of what they understood around

292
00:12:14,990 --> 00:12:12,899
an area to themselves because they were

293
00:12:17,569 --> 00:12:15,000
afraid that somebody else would run with

294
00:12:21,050 --> 00:12:17,579
it and and claim the discovery that

295
00:12:22,970 --> 00:12:21,060
might come from the the data uh and and

296
00:12:25,009 --> 00:12:22,980
that that has been shown again and again

297
00:12:27,290 --> 00:12:25,019
first of all to not be playing ethically

298
00:12:29,930 --> 00:12:27,300
with public dollars you know if I'm

299
00:12:32,210 --> 00:12:29,940
funded to do something uh by the public

300
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:32,220
I don't get to keep the data for myself

301
00:12:37,009 --> 00:12:34,560
or my own best interests

302
00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:37,019
I as quickly as reasonably possible I

303
00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:40,320
get that data out once it's validated

304
00:12:44,629 --> 00:12:42,240
um so I think the same thing is is true

305
00:12:46,370 --> 00:12:44,639
here uh now there might be some

306
00:12:48,710 --> 00:12:46,380
legitimate reasons or things that you

307
00:12:51,170 --> 00:12:48,720
don't want to have now and perhaps that

308
00:12:53,449 --> 00:12:51,180
is because to have known that thing that

309
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:53,459
reveals some aspect of how you collected

310
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:54,959
the data which you don't want your

311
00:12:59,389 --> 00:12:57,120
enemies to know how you did it it might

312
00:13:01,550 --> 00:12:59,399
reveal you know procedures or whatever

313
00:13:03,889 --> 00:13:01,560
you've heard the verbiage that the dod

314
00:13:05,569 --> 00:13:03,899
uh and the intelligence Community uses

315
00:13:08,829 --> 00:13:05,579
so maybe there's something about that

316
00:13:11,389 --> 00:13:08,839
but no I just don't believe I I think

317
00:13:13,129 --> 00:13:11,399
humanity is mature enough most people

318
00:13:16,069 --> 00:13:13,139
are mature enough and but I've said this

319
00:13:18,470 --> 00:13:16,079
in another way if it's not going to

320
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:18,480
change whether you can put food on your

321
00:13:21,170 --> 00:13:19,440
table

322
00:13:22,430 --> 00:13:21,180
for most people this is not going to be

323
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:22,440
an issue that's going to change anything

324
00:13:26,870 --> 00:13:23,760
for anybody

325
00:13:28,069 --> 00:13:26,880
you know so I I think just collectively

326
00:13:31,069 --> 00:13:28,079
understanding that there's an

327
00:13:33,050 --> 00:13:31,079
opportunity here both to better place

328
00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:33,060
ourselves in let's say the cosmic

329
00:13:39,350 --> 00:13:36,060
hierarchy if there is such a thing

330
00:13:41,389 --> 00:13:39,360
um but also and I said this before if if

331
00:13:43,490 --> 00:13:41,399
knowing that a civilization can get

332
00:13:45,769 --> 00:13:43,500
beyond the inflection point that we seem

333
00:13:48,769 --> 00:13:45,779
to be near right now the 90 seconds to

334
00:13:52,009 --> 00:13:48,779
midnight to nuclear midnight knowing

335
00:13:53,449 --> 00:13:52,019
that you can get beyond that uh that to

336
00:13:55,910 --> 00:13:53,459
me is a hopeful sign

337
00:13:58,190 --> 00:13:55,920
you know if if every if every

338
00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:58,200
civilization ends up blowing itself up

339
00:14:02,509 --> 00:14:00,480
then you know then we're then that then

340
00:14:04,069 --> 00:14:02,519
we're doomed but clearly given some of

341
00:14:06,889 --> 00:14:04,079
the things that seem to be uh

342
00:14:09,290 --> 00:14:06,899
interacting with Humanity something has

343
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:09,300
gotten past that inflection point so

344
00:14:13,610 --> 00:14:11,040
that to me is a hopeful thing

345
00:14:17,389 --> 00:14:13,620
So my answer to Leslie I I know her

346
00:14:18,889 --> 00:14:17,399
quite well is uh is I I see no reason we

347
00:14:20,990 --> 00:14:18,899
shouldn't let people know as much as

348
00:14:23,690 --> 00:14:21,000
they as they can handle

349
00:14:25,310 --> 00:14:23,700
okay thank you so much appreciate it

350
00:14:26,509 --> 00:14:25,320
yeah and as much as they can handle

351
00:14:28,970 --> 00:14:26,519
could be different for every person

352
00:14:31,970 --> 00:14:28,980
right so how do you really know who can

353
00:14:34,250 --> 00:14:31,980
handle what but but in the end

354
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:34,260
um I think the people deserve the truth

355
00:14:39,290 --> 00:14:37,440
you know as as far as we know it you

356
00:14:41,810 --> 00:14:39,300
know although keeping it like you said

357
00:14:44,569 --> 00:14:41,820
National Security things

358
00:14:46,069 --> 00:14:44,579
um you know secret so to speak

359
00:14:49,310 --> 00:14:46,079
um

360
00:14:51,530 --> 00:14:49,320
do you kind of kind of

361
00:14:54,650 --> 00:14:51,540
pivoting towards

362
00:14:57,170 --> 00:14:54,660
um maybe Congress and what they see as

363
00:15:00,530 --> 00:14:57,180
evidence you know I I heard you say

364
00:15:02,210 --> 00:15:00,540
on an interview how you know the people

365
00:15:03,410 --> 00:15:02,220
in Congress are taking this seriously

366
00:15:04,730 --> 00:15:03,420
they're the ones that were in meetings

367
00:15:06,530 --> 00:15:04,740
they're the ones that saw the classified

368
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:06,540
information and they came out with their

369
00:15:10,810 --> 00:15:09,120
eyes wide open and put forth

370
00:15:13,129 --> 00:15:10,820
um this language

371
00:15:15,650 --> 00:15:13,139
you know and so they were obviously

372
00:15:18,949 --> 00:15:15,660
motivated and convicted to do

373
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:18,959
um as such what do you think it'll take

374
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:23,040
to get General civilians in that same

375
00:15:29,449 --> 00:15:26,639
boat that aren't right now I know so I

376
00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:29,459
think what what Congress needs to do I

377
00:15:32,750 --> 00:15:30,959
mean they've come out and said some

378
00:15:34,910 --> 00:15:32,760
pretty startling things I mean Timber

379
00:15:37,250 --> 00:15:34,920
chat uh perhaps some of the most

380
00:15:42,769 --> 00:15:37,260
startling and I think

381
00:15:45,230 --> 00:15:42,779
um was it uh Wagner uh or Laura Warner

382
00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:45,240
um have come out and basically said it's

383
00:15:50,810 --> 00:15:48,600
a technology and you know I think Wagner

384
00:15:53,329 --> 00:15:50,820
basically said yeah it looked like a a a

385
00:15:56,210 --> 00:15:53,339
silver object it looked like you know

386
00:16:00,110 --> 00:15:56,220
something technological

387
00:16:02,530 --> 00:16:00,120
um you know they need to find a way to

388
00:16:05,090 --> 00:16:02,540
basically say

389
00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:05,100
okay no we don't know if it's an alien

390
00:16:08,329 --> 00:16:06,720
or not but we know that it's a

391
00:16:10,370 --> 00:16:08,339
technology and an object

392
00:16:12,170 --> 00:16:10,380
and we know that it's not ours I mean

393
00:16:14,829 --> 00:16:12,180
they're playing a very careful dance and

394
00:16:17,210 --> 00:16:14,839
I think you know like uh it's it's like

395
00:16:20,569 --> 00:16:17,220
they're when they know what it is

396
00:16:22,430 --> 00:16:20,579
they're saying it's not an alien it's a

397
00:16:24,230 --> 00:16:22,440
balloon or whatever and I'm fine with

398
00:16:26,449 --> 00:16:24,240
them dismissing those things and saying

399
00:16:28,850 --> 00:16:26,459
they are not what they are but they're

400
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:28,860
they're they're playing footsie with

401
00:16:31,129 --> 00:16:30,480
this well when they don't know what it

402
00:16:35,210 --> 00:16:31,139
is

403
00:16:37,730 --> 00:16:35,220
they do know that some of these things

404
00:16:39,470 --> 00:16:37,740
have and move in with parameters that

405
00:16:40,550 --> 00:16:39,480
are clearly not

406
00:16:42,590 --> 00:16:40,560
human

407
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:42,600
and so they need to come up with a

408
00:16:47,870 --> 00:16:45,839
definition that says this is an object

409
00:16:51,410 --> 00:16:47,880
which is doing something that we can't

410
00:16:55,629 --> 00:16:51,420
do it's clearly an object it's clearly

411
00:16:59,389 --> 00:16:55,639
not a a radar glitch

412
00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:59,399
and therefore I mean yes we won't know

413
00:17:02,569 --> 00:17:00,959
what it is and we can't say it's an

414
00:17:03,949 --> 00:17:02,579
alien but we can't say it's not human

415
00:17:05,809 --> 00:17:03,959
and it's real

416
00:17:07,610 --> 00:17:05,819
so there needs to be some sort of a

417
00:17:08,510 --> 00:17:07,620
definition in that category I mean yes

418
00:17:10,130 --> 00:17:08,520
there's going to be things that they

419
00:17:11,870 --> 00:17:10,140
just don't have enough data on I

420
00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:11,880
understand that but then there are

421
00:17:15,770 --> 00:17:13,500
things that they do have enough data on

422
00:17:17,449 --> 00:17:15,780
that you know for all intents and

423
00:17:19,610 --> 00:17:17,459
purposes when everything else has been

424
00:17:22,130 --> 00:17:19,620
taken off the table if it's not human

425
00:17:23,870 --> 00:17:22,140
they need to be able to say that right

426
00:17:26,569 --> 00:17:23,880
and they need to come out and

427
00:17:29,630 --> 00:17:26,579
proactively say that so maybe they're

428
00:17:31,610 --> 00:17:29,640
maybe Arrow or this inter uh

429
00:17:35,390 --> 00:17:31,620
departmental task force that Biden is

430
00:17:38,270 --> 00:17:35,400
setting up will be uh capable of saying

431
00:17:40,010 --> 00:17:38,280
that but we need to push them to say

432
00:17:43,850 --> 00:17:40,020
that we need to come up with a

433
00:17:46,970 --> 00:17:43,860
definition of what fits in that box that

434
00:17:49,970 --> 00:17:46,980
no they didn't land and Shake our hands

435
00:17:51,830 --> 00:17:49,980
but we know that it's not ours or for

436
00:17:54,350 --> 00:17:51,840
you know all intents and purposes we

437
00:17:56,330 --> 00:17:54,360
can't figure out how it could be ours or

438
00:17:57,830 --> 00:17:56,340
China's or anybody else's but it's

439
00:18:01,310 --> 00:17:57,840
clearly a technology

440
00:18:03,110 --> 00:18:01,320
and that just saying that would be

441
00:18:05,330 --> 00:18:03,120
sufficient I think to move the

442
00:18:08,090 --> 00:18:05,340
conversation forward a little bit so

443
00:18:10,490 --> 00:18:08,100
maybe that's what Sean Kirkpatrick and

444
00:18:11,930 --> 00:18:10,500
uh is doing at Arrow I mean I know the

445
00:18:13,549 --> 00:18:11,940
kinds of data I know the kinds of people

446
00:18:16,010 --> 00:18:13,559
that he's talking to

447
00:18:17,810 --> 00:18:16,020
uh and the information that he's

448
00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:17,820
collected he's probably

449
00:18:22,730 --> 00:18:20,160
I would you know and I'm positive about

450
00:18:25,430 --> 00:18:22,740
this I mean I'm in a positive mood about

451
00:18:27,409 --> 00:18:25,440
this that he probably knows almost the

452
00:18:28,970 --> 00:18:27,419
most about the phenomenon as anybody

453
00:18:30,590 --> 00:18:28,980
else in the world today

454
00:18:32,750 --> 00:18:30,600
in terms of what he's been able to

455
00:18:35,450 --> 00:18:32,760
publicly collect and I think that's a

456
00:18:38,690 --> 00:18:35,460
good thing you know because I mean all

457
00:18:40,430 --> 00:18:38,700
indications you know that I've got is

458
00:18:42,770 --> 00:18:40,440
that he's he's moving things in a

459
00:18:44,289 --> 00:18:42,780
positive direction so I'm hopeful there

460
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:44,299
but

461
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:47,760
hopeful about what Biden has done and

462
00:18:53,930 --> 00:18:50,880
that he's basically said I'm just gonna

463
00:18:56,090 --> 00:18:53,940
make sure that nothing slips through the

464
00:18:58,430 --> 00:18:56,100
cracks here that's interesting do you

465
00:19:00,289 --> 00:18:58,440
think he's saying that by setting up

466
00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:00,299
that other study group you think he's

467
00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:02,220
doing that to kind of be a watchdog and

468
00:19:07,070 --> 00:19:05,039
look over it on make sure I wonder I

469
00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:07,080
mean there's only one reason for him to

470
00:19:11,390 --> 00:19:08,880
do so I mean either he was he was

471
00:19:13,730 --> 00:19:11,400
reacting politically to the hubbub

472
00:19:16,250 --> 00:19:13,740
around the balloon incidents in and of

473
00:19:18,909 --> 00:19:16,260
themselves or he's saying

474
00:19:22,669 --> 00:19:18,919
I'm not going to wait for these yearly

475
00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:22,679
uh updates from Arrow

476
00:19:27,950 --> 00:19:26,400
um I need uh real-time information from

477
00:19:30,529 --> 00:19:27,960
across all of the services and of course

478
00:19:33,169 --> 00:19:30,539
this interpartmental task force probably

479
00:19:35,029 --> 00:19:33,179
has a little bit more reach uh than

480
00:19:37,490 --> 00:19:35,039
arrow is probably probably less

481
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:37,500
coordinated I hope that they find a way

482
00:19:41,690 --> 00:19:39,840
to coordinate with each other and that

483
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:41,700
one is not working across purposes to

484
00:19:45,529 --> 00:19:43,200
the other

485
00:19:46,970 --> 00:19:45,539
um but I I do see a positive synergism

486
00:19:48,409 --> 00:19:46,980
that can come of it

487
00:19:49,610 --> 00:19:48,419
cool

488
00:19:53,330 --> 00:19:49,620
thanks

489
00:19:56,570 --> 00:19:53,340
um you've talked before about how in

490
00:19:58,570 --> 00:19:56,580
meeting Jacques Valley that he helped

491
00:20:01,909 --> 00:19:58,580
um he helped

492
00:20:04,490 --> 00:20:01,919
you figure out very quickly

493
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:04,500
um the benefits of talking about data

494
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:07,200
rather than conclusions you've also said

495
00:20:11,870 --> 00:20:09,840
relatively recently that you've helped

496
00:20:14,090 --> 00:20:11,880
with some writing that made it in front

497
00:20:16,370 --> 00:20:14,100
of an intelligence committee that may

498
00:20:19,130 --> 00:20:16,380
have helped out with some of this

499
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:19,140
language the ndaa and these realizations

500
00:20:22,370 --> 00:20:20,640
that some of these Congress people have

501
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:22,380
been having these thousand yard stairs

502
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:23,940
the sense of

503
00:20:27,230 --> 00:20:25,679
urgency and severity that's that some of

504
00:20:30,049 --> 00:20:27,240
these members of Congress has started to

505
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:30,059
have do you feel that there's is there a

506
00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:32,640
difference in how you write your

507
00:20:36,289 --> 00:20:34,559
scientific papers and the caveats that

508
00:20:39,350 --> 00:20:36,299
are necessary when talking to an

509
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:39,360
academic audience and then and

510
00:20:44,630 --> 00:20:42,240
and what you've written towards Congress

511
00:20:46,490 --> 00:20:44,640
people and are there examples that you

512
00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:46,500
could give from what you've written

513
00:20:56,510 --> 00:20:52,970
the white paper that I wrote I mean it

514
00:21:00,770 --> 00:20:56,520
was nothing like super urgent or secret

515
00:21:02,990 --> 00:21:00,780
about it but it really was about for me

516
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:03,000
at least I'm less interested in the

517
00:21:07,070 --> 00:21:05,280
threats that these things might

518
00:21:08,810 --> 00:21:07,080
represent as opposed to the

519
00:21:10,730 --> 00:21:08,820
opportunities that they represent I mean

520
00:21:12,529 --> 00:21:10,740
threats are a good way to get people to

521
00:21:14,750 --> 00:21:12,539
pay attention opportunities are a good

522
00:21:17,570 --> 00:21:14,760
way to get them to follow through

523
00:21:19,970 --> 00:21:17,580
uh and so I mean that's just kind of

524
00:21:22,669 --> 00:21:19,980
standard VC venture capital parlance

525
00:21:25,370 --> 00:21:22,679
what's the what's the unmet need and

526
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:25,380
what's the solution and not just as a

527
00:21:27,650 --> 00:21:26,640
solution but it actually is an

528
00:21:29,630 --> 00:21:27,660
opportunity

529
00:21:31,610 --> 00:21:29,640
and that's basically that's that's a

530
00:21:34,130 --> 00:21:31,620
summary of a pitch that you give to a

531
00:21:36,110 --> 00:21:34,140
venture capitalist

532
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:36,120
um and so I took the opportunity

533
00:21:40,430 --> 00:21:38,400
approach to say that the technologies

534
00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:40,440
that might be available might be

535
00:21:44,750 --> 00:21:41,280
available

536
00:21:46,730 --> 00:21:44,760
uh or might rep be represented here are

537
00:21:48,770 --> 00:21:46,740
now worth investigation

538
00:21:52,130 --> 00:21:48,780
uh and are now worth putting putting

539
00:21:54,049 --> 00:21:52,140
money into uh and and that resonated I

540
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:54,059
know with the with the Committees but

541
00:21:58,789 --> 00:21:57,120
what I underscored it with was look the

542
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:58,799
way that you guys have been stove piping

543
00:22:04,490 --> 00:22:00,720
these various investigations of the

544
00:22:06,590 --> 00:22:04,500
objects that putatively or allegedly are

545
00:22:08,990 --> 00:22:06,600
available and being reversed or looked

546
00:22:13,130 --> 00:22:09,000
at for reverse engineering is that you

547
00:22:14,690 --> 00:22:13,140
you you you you do not have the nests

548
00:22:17,690 --> 00:22:14,700
and I know this for a fact you do not

549
00:22:20,270 --> 00:22:17,700
have the necessary scientific Talent

550
00:22:22,909 --> 00:22:20,280
sitting within those stove pipes to

551
00:22:26,330 --> 00:22:22,919
really understand the the problem I mean

552
00:22:28,730 --> 00:22:26,340
I'm sorry there's probably five people

553
00:22:30,649 --> 00:22:28,740
on the planet who understand quantum

554
00:22:32,690 --> 00:22:30,659
gravity or the concepts or looking into

555
00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:32,700
the notion of quantum gravity none of

556
00:22:36,649 --> 00:22:33,840
them are working in any of these

557
00:22:37,850 --> 00:22:36,659
programs the materials engineers and the

558
00:22:40,669 --> 00:22:37,860
materials

559
00:22:43,130 --> 00:22:40,679
um uh analysts and the kind of atomic

560
00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:43,140
knowledge that we need for studying some

561
00:22:48,110 --> 00:22:45,720
of this stuff it's just not there I'm

562
00:22:50,149 --> 00:22:48,120
sorry it's just not

563
00:22:52,549 --> 00:22:50,159
um and so you know one of the things

564
00:22:54,049 --> 00:22:52,559
that I put into you know into my white

565
00:22:56,149 --> 00:22:54,059
paper was it's time to bring the

566
00:22:58,730 --> 00:22:56,159
scientists in and get them get them the

567
00:23:00,169 --> 00:22:58,740
clearances uh and yeah bring them in in

568
00:23:01,430 --> 00:23:00,179
a structured manner of course it doesn't

569
00:23:03,409 --> 00:23:01,440
mean that they get to publish everything

570
00:23:04,909 --> 00:23:03,419
they want and that you know in nature of

571
00:23:07,930 --> 00:23:04,919
science

572
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:07,940
um and whether or not what I wrote

573
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:11,039
was uh formative and getting it into the

574
00:23:15,409 --> 00:23:13,679
language it was in the language I don't

575
00:23:17,990 --> 00:23:15,419
know that they took my quote and put it

576
00:23:19,669 --> 00:23:18,000
in but it was in the language and I

577
00:23:21,470 --> 00:23:19,679
think that that's important that

578
00:23:23,390 --> 00:23:21,480
somebody recognized the value of it

579
00:23:27,230 --> 00:23:23,400
whether I was relevant to the discussion

580
00:23:29,870 --> 00:23:27,240
or not because it isn't doesn't matter

581
00:23:33,169 --> 00:23:29,880
um so because now it's in the language

582
00:23:37,210 --> 00:23:33,179
and and once it's in there that means it

583
00:23:40,130 --> 00:23:37,220
can be acted upon by program managers

584
00:23:41,870 --> 00:23:40,140
who want to put together a program to

585
00:23:43,610 --> 00:23:41,880
study it now it's they can point you in

586
00:23:46,669 --> 00:23:43,620
the language and say I have been told by

587
00:23:48,409 --> 00:23:46,679
Congress to make this happen

588
00:23:50,750 --> 00:23:48,419
and so that I think is important because

589
00:23:53,930 --> 00:23:50,760
you have to open up the conversation

590
00:23:56,090 --> 00:23:53,940
um and it's this in a way it it it it's

591
00:23:57,710 --> 00:23:56,100
skews back to the question from Leslie

592
00:24:00,590 --> 00:23:57,720
plume

593
00:24:03,409 --> 00:24:00,600
how much openness is necessary how much

594
00:24:06,850 --> 00:24:03,419
transparency is necessary you know I

595
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:06,860
mean new ideas come by taking at least

596
00:24:13,730 --> 00:24:10,080
ideas that I come up with are usually

597
00:24:16,190 --> 00:24:13,740
finding some parallel and metaphors

598
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:16,200
between different Realms of knowledge

599
00:24:20,930 --> 00:24:19,440
that you see a connection that nobody

600
00:24:22,970 --> 00:24:20,940
else had seen before

601
00:24:26,350 --> 00:24:22,980
and that's where almost all discovery is

602
00:24:28,630 --> 00:24:26,360
is recognizing that cross

603
00:24:31,490 --> 00:24:28,640
cross-investigative cross domain

604
00:24:34,669 --> 00:24:31,500
correlation that one fitting is relevant

605
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:34,679
to another some of the best explainers

606
00:24:41,390 --> 00:24:37,440
in science are people who say it's like

607
00:24:45,890 --> 00:24:41,400
this and then they find some you know uh

608
00:24:48,830 --> 00:24:45,900
some uh everyday way of explaining a

609
00:24:50,750 --> 00:24:48,840
complex concept uh and then they bring

610
00:24:54,169 --> 00:24:50,760
those domain those cross-domain

611
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:54,179
knowledge correlations to bear and then

612
00:24:59,870 --> 00:24:57,600
they're few and bear fruit

613
00:25:01,549 --> 00:24:59,880
and that's what I think is is where this

614
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:01,559
can go

615
00:25:05,270 --> 00:25:03,840
I think that's a beautiful way of

616
00:25:07,549 --> 00:25:05,280
explaining it and something I think of

617
00:25:09,710 --> 00:25:07,559
when you're talking about that is is how

618
00:25:10,850 --> 00:25:09,720
you stumbled upon

619
00:25:13,789 --> 00:25:10,860
um

620
00:25:15,710 --> 00:25:13,799
the idea of where you were able to

621
00:25:19,730 --> 00:25:15,720
locate a part of the brain that may be

622
00:25:21,529 --> 00:25:19,740
responsible for kind of um I don't want

623
00:25:23,570 --> 00:25:21,539
to say Superior performance but you know

624
00:25:25,070 --> 00:25:23,580
better performance

625
00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:25,080
um and now you stumbled upon that by

626
00:25:30,350 --> 00:25:28,080
looking at these hundred or so cases 90

627
00:25:31,549 --> 00:25:30,360
were Havanna syndrome the other 10

628
00:25:34,669 --> 00:25:31,559
percent

629
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:34,679
um you know had these encounters

630
00:25:38,630 --> 00:25:36,960
um so so that's great that's interesting

631
00:25:41,090 --> 00:25:38,640
and a lot of scientific you know

632
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:41,100
discoveries come in the anomalous right

633
00:25:45,830 --> 00:25:44,400
the phenomena so well it's about I mean

634
00:25:47,990 --> 00:25:45,840
it's important and this is one of the

635
00:25:49,850 --> 00:25:48,000
things that gets me upset about the

636
00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:49,860
pseudoseptics who want to get things off

637
00:25:55,669 --> 00:25:53,279
the table is every major Discovery in

638
00:25:57,529 --> 00:25:55,679
Humanities you know presence on this

639
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:57,539
Earth has been because somebody

640
00:26:02,810 --> 00:25:59,520
recognized something that didn't make

641
00:26:04,909 --> 00:26:02,820
sense and they and they realized it was

642
00:26:07,310 --> 00:26:04,919
of that understanding it would be

643
00:26:08,990 --> 00:26:07,320
valuable so there's there's value in

644
00:26:10,909 --> 00:26:09,000
just collecting data for data's sake

645
00:26:13,850 --> 00:26:10,919
that's called you know basic research

646
00:26:16,010 --> 00:26:13,860
has no apparent purpose except just

647
00:26:17,870 --> 00:26:16,020
collecting knowledge uh and then there's

648
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:17,880
translational research which will look

649
00:26:23,630 --> 00:26:19,919
at the basic knowledge or somebody who

650
00:26:25,310 --> 00:26:23,640
is of the correct mindset that realizes

651
00:26:27,470 --> 00:26:25,320
from that basic knowledge they can make

652
00:26:30,289 --> 00:26:27,480
something new

653
00:26:32,750 --> 00:26:30,299
um but then it is recognizing when

654
00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:32,760
something is off the curve data off the

655
00:26:37,730 --> 00:26:35,760
curve that cannot be explained

656
00:26:40,490 --> 00:26:37,740
but that when you explain it suddenly

657
00:26:43,850 --> 00:26:40,500
you make a discovery nearly every Nobel

658
00:26:47,990 --> 00:26:43,860
Prize has been given uh has been around

659
00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:48,000
that essential concept breaking the mold

660
00:26:53,570 --> 00:26:50,880
of prior knowledge

661
00:26:56,390 --> 00:26:53,580
well that's something I appreciate about

662
00:26:58,490 --> 00:26:56,400
UFO studies as well and I think a lot of

663
00:27:00,769 --> 00:26:58,500
people may not realize is when you do

664
00:27:03,710 --> 00:27:00,779
study UFOs whether it be cases or

665
00:27:06,409 --> 00:27:03,720
testimonies or whatever you learn so

666
00:27:08,450 --> 00:27:06,419
much more about so many other things in

667
00:27:09,890 --> 00:27:08,460
the process of doing that even on my

668
00:27:12,049 --> 00:27:09,900
level where I'm not a college graduate

669
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:12,059
or anything studying Blue Book files

670
00:27:17,269 --> 00:27:14,880
I've learned about all sorts of things

671
00:27:19,370 --> 00:27:17,279
like Aviation radar systems all that

672
00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:19,380
kind of stuff that I would add no idea

673
00:27:23,630 --> 00:27:21,360
about before and just the human psyche

674
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:23,640
and you know my own experience and how

675
00:27:27,289 --> 00:27:25,440
that relates to others so I I think

676
00:27:30,169 --> 00:27:27,299
that's a great point so Jay did you have

677
00:27:31,549 --> 00:27:30,179
something sure yeah I think that's a

678
00:27:33,950 --> 00:27:31,559
great Point Sean

679
00:27:35,649 --> 00:27:33,960
um you know Hal put off uh put it

680
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:35,659
finally put out is long rumored

681
00:27:41,390 --> 00:27:38,880
ultra-terrestrials paper last year and

682
00:27:44,990 --> 00:27:41,400
uh people like Eric W Davis hint toward

683
00:27:47,450 --> 00:27:45,000
a shadow biome uh where nhi other forms

684
00:27:50,330 --> 00:27:47,460
of life could possibly be hiding even

685
00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:50,340
here on Earth uh some believe that the

686
00:27:54,289 --> 00:27:52,080
mysteries of Dark Matter Dark Energy

687
00:27:56,750 --> 00:27:54,299
might point to overlapping Realms of

688
00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:56,760
reality that thus far we can only

689
00:28:02,690 --> 00:27:59,039
indirectly detect is there anything

690
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:02,700
useful or interesting in your research

691
00:28:06,890 --> 00:28:04,320
or your work that you've come across

692
00:28:10,730 --> 00:28:06,900
that might point to the possibility or

693
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:10,740
reality of a so-called Shadow biome or

694
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:12,720
some unseen Realm

695
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:15,120
uh yeah I saw that question go by by

696
00:28:18,409 --> 00:28:16,320
Thomas

697
00:28:21,049 --> 00:28:18,419
um on the side

698
00:28:25,130 --> 00:28:21,059
um yeah I mean uh there's someone I'm

699
00:28:28,370 --> 00:28:25,140
helping who has some fascinating uh data

700
00:28:29,810 --> 00:28:28,380
and images I'm actually uh well I won't

701
00:28:30,890 --> 00:28:29,820
say how I'm helping them but I'm helping

702
00:28:33,769 --> 00:28:30,900
him

703
00:28:35,390 --> 00:28:33,779
um and the data's compelling you know

704
00:28:39,230 --> 00:28:35,400
it's it's fascinating I don't know how

705
00:28:41,090 --> 00:28:39,240
to explain it but it's it is it's worth

706
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:41,100
understanding

707
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:42,960
um it's whatever it is seems to move

708
00:28:49,370 --> 00:28:45,840
faster than normal uh

709
00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:49,380
uh living things but if you run your

710
00:28:53,450 --> 00:28:50,940
camera fast enough you can see them

711
00:28:55,490 --> 00:28:53,460
repeatedly and

712
00:28:57,710 --> 00:28:55,500
um so you know I've got some pretty

713
00:28:59,930 --> 00:28:57,720
interesting people interested in it with

714
00:29:02,690 --> 00:28:59,940
him uh who are willing to put the Bucks

715
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:02,700
in to to analyze it and maybe even maybe

716
00:29:09,169 --> 00:29:06,000
do a documentary about it uh and it's uh

717
00:29:11,510 --> 00:29:09,179
you know if it's real it's it's

718
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:11,520
outstanding it's still alleged and I'd

719
00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:13,679
rather not go into it any any more than

720
00:29:16,730 --> 00:29:14,940
that I don't want to put him under any

721
00:29:17,330 --> 00:29:16,740
pressure

722
00:29:20,269 --> 00:29:17,340
um

723
00:29:22,549 --> 00:29:20,279
but you know that this notion that

724
00:29:25,310 --> 00:29:22,559
Humanity knows everything and that you

725
00:29:27,289 --> 00:29:25,320
know everything within the the you know

726
00:29:30,350 --> 00:29:27,299
the reach of our flashlight is is

727
00:29:32,570 --> 00:29:30,360
sufficiently well known is just it's

728
00:29:35,450 --> 00:29:32,580
just asking for trouble right it's just

729
00:29:38,169 --> 00:29:35,460
asking to be proven wrong and

730
00:29:42,169 --> 00:29:38,179
um you know you don't have to imagine

731
00:29:44,570 --> 00:29:42,179
uh a an alternative Dimension to imagine

732
00:29:47,389 --> 00:29:44,580
an alternative bio

733
00:29:50,090 --> 00:29:47,399
that might be you know living aside us

734
00:29:52,250 --> 00:29:50,100
that we just aren't paying attention to

735
00:29:54,649 --> 00:29:52,260
um you know I I have no proof of any of

736
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:54,659
it but you know taking it off the table

737
00:29:59,090 --> 00:29:56,399
means you'll never look

738
00:30:02,090 --> 00:29:59,100
so let's just

739
00:30:04,250 --> 00:30:02,100
keep our options open

740
00:30:06,529 --> 00:30:04,260
I think

741
00:30:08,510 --> 00:30:06,539
thanks so much appreciate it Sean the

742
00:30:13,010 --> 00:30:08,520
shadow biome thing that that my friend

743
00:30:15,889 --> 00:30:13,020
is interacting with seems to have uh

744
00:30:18,529 --> 00:30:15,899
interacting with this interesting he it

745
00:30:21,169 --> 00:30:18,539
seems to respond to his let's say his

746
00:30:24,889 --> 00:30:23,450
so what does that sound like to you he's

747
00:30:27,710 --> 00:30:24,899
there

748
00:30:30,830 --> 00:30:27,720
fascinating yeah

749
00:30:33,649 --> 00:30:30,840
there's something else that uh responds

750
00:30:35,090 --> 00:30:33,659
when when it's under observation but

751
00:30:37,730 --> 00:30:35,100
it's slip in my mind what is that

752
00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:37,740
something something scientific

753
00:30:44,169 --> 00:30:41,520
I can't uh information but um

754
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:44,179
yeah that's right I don't know but yeah

755
00:30:52,430 --> 00:30:48,000
it's pretty interesting I think uh

756
00:30:54,110 --> 00:30:52,440
you know it's clear to me that

757
00:30:55,370 --> 00:30:54,120
whenever humans think that they've

758
00:30:57,289 --> 00:30:55,380
they've kind of learned it all or know

759
00:30:59,090 --> 00:30:57,299
it all they're they're they're proved

760
00:31:02,269 --> 00:30:59,100
differently right and that dates back to

761
00:31:04,250 --> 00:31:02,279
the beginning of recorded history pretty

762
00:31:07,130 --> 00:31:04,260
much so to think that that would change

763
00:31:08,570 --> 00:31:07,140
now uh is pretty silly and I like uh Dr

764
00:31:11,090 --> 00:31:08,580
loeb's kind of

765
00:31:13,430 --> 00:31:11,100
thing and this is you know where we

766
00:31:16,250 --> 00:31:13,440
might not be the smartest

767
00:31:18,169 --> 00:31:16,260
um you know the the smartest species

768
00:31:19,789 --> 00:31:18,179
here and it might not even be our planet

769
00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:19,799
for all you know but we can only see so

770
00:31:25,669 --> 00:31:22,260
much we can only spell so much here so

771
00:31:28,370 --> 00:31:25,679
much let's look at a real world incident

772
00:31:30,169 --> 00:31:28,380
yeah that's it okay so I mean something

773
00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:30,179
that is you know that's been on my mind

774
00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:32,820
for a while so is there is there life on

775
00:31:39,130 --> 00:31:36,960
Mars so the um you know the Vikings you

776
00:31:42,529 --> 00:31:39,140
know the Viking uh Landers

777
00:31:46,370 --> 00:31:42,539
had uh experiments uh basically mini

778
00:31:48,409 --> 00:31:46,380
Labs sent back in the 1970s or so or six

779
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:48,419
eight eight seventies eighties I can't

780
00:31:51,470 --> 00:31:49,440
remember

781
00:31:53,690 --> 00:31:51,480
um but anyway uh and it turns out that

782
00:31:55,970 --> 00:31:53,700
those experiments were and the and the

783
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:55,980
devices were designed in the department

784
00:32:00,710 --> 00:31:58,320
where I got my PhD in the department of

785
00:32:03,649 --> 00:32:00,720
genetics at Stanford uh and originally

786
00:32:06,289 --> 00:32:03,659
uh set up by this guy Joshua letterberg

787
00:32:09,470 --> 00:32:06,299
who was the Nobel Prize winner for

788
00:32:12,409 --> 00:32:09,480
um for uh for genetics and bacterial

789
00:32:14,810 --> 00:32:12,419
genetics uh back in the day

790
00:32:18,289 --> 00:32:14,820
um and you know they came back with some

791
00:32:20,810 --> 00:32:18,299
interesting positive results and uh some

792
00:32:23,570 --> 00:32:20,820
people explained them away as

793
00:32:25,490 --> 00:32:23,580
perchlorate uh

794
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:25,500
um chemical reactions that were

795
00:32:30,350 --> 00:32:27,840
mimicking the output that you would get

796
00:32:32,750 --> 00:32:30,360
from a biological

797
00:32:34,909 --> 00:32:32,760
um uh growth they basically had growth

798
00:32:37,610 --> 00:32:34,919
media they put some of the dirt from the

799
00:32:40,430 --> 00:32:37,620
from Mars in it and it bubbled and gave

800
00:32:43,330 --> 00:32:40,440
you know gave a gas release that looked

801
00:32:45,130 --> 00:32:43,340
like it was it was alive

802
00:32:48,110 --> 00:32:45,140
meta-analysis of the data later

803
00:32:49,850 --> 00:32:48,120
suggested that it actually was life but

804
00:32:53,029 --> 00:32:49,860
surprisingly

805
00:32:55,130 --> 00:32:53,039
NASA has never sent back

806
00:32:57,649 --> 00:32:55,140
any experiments to try to replicate it

807
00:33:00,590 --> 00:32:57,659
even something as simple as

808
00:33:03,590 --> 00:33:00,600
putting a microscope

809
00:33:04,370 --> 00:33:03,600
in along with the growth media to see

810
00:33:06,169 --> 00:33:04,380
whether or not there was anything

811
00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:06,179
swimming around you know not just

812
00:33:10,909 --> 00:33:08,340
movement because you can get Brownie in

813
00:33:12,110 --> 00:33:10,919
motion and you know basically you know

814
00:33:13,850 --> 00:33:12,120
anything small will look like it's

815
00:33:16,009 --> 00:33:13,860
moving around but moving with a purpose

816
00:33:18,409 --> 00:33:16,019
but there's also all kinds of enzymatic

817
00:33:21,529 --> 00:33:18,419
tests that you could add you know simple

818
00:33:23,330 --> 00:33:21,539
enzyme uh colorimetric or fluorometric

819
00:33:25,549 --> 00:33:23,340
test that would release a color based on

820
00:33:27,409 --> 00:33:25,559
the presence of an enzyme that can't be

821
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:27,419
explained away as a perchlorate chemical

822
00:33:29,930 --> 00:33:28,559
reaction

823
00:33:32,509 --> 00:33:29,940
why

824
00:33:36,169 --> 00:33:32,519
for the life of love of God

825
00:33:39,049 --> 00:33:36,179
has the are the geologists in control of

826
00:33:40,490 --> 00:33:39,059
looking for Life on Mars

827
00:33:43,549 --> 00:33:40,500
I mean they're looking for something

828
00:33:46,370 --> 00:33:43,559
that might be four billion years old

829
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:46,380
right you know you even an experiment

830
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,720
was done down in one of the deserts of

831
00:33:53,330 --> 00:33:50,640
Peru that showed how difficult it is

832
00:33:55,310 --> 00:33:53,340
even on Earth to find something some

833
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:55,320
evidence that there would ever life on

834
00:33:59,389 --> 00:33:56,640
Earth I mean if you if an

835
00:34:01,310 --> 00:33:59,399
extraterrestrial you know civilization

836
00:34:02,450 --> 00:34:01,320
land in the Peruvian desert they'd have

837
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:02,460
a hard time knowing that there was ever

838
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:03,600
life on Earth

839
00:34:08,450 --> 00:34:07,200
given at least our state of current uh

840
00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:08,460
analysis

841
00:34:13,730 --> 00:34:10,560
so it seems that there's someone at Nasa

842
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:13,740
who is absolutely intent on not doing

843
00:34:19,369 --> 00:34:17,040
the simplest easiest experiment so look

844
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:19,379
for life so that tells you that who's

845
00:34:24,829 --> 00:34:21,839
ever in charge are either blind to the

846
00:34:27,530 --> 00:34:24,839
opportunity or purposefully attempting

847
00:34:29,089 --> 00:34:27,540
to distract uh for some other reason I'm

848
00:34:30,649 --> 00:34:29,099
not trying to be conspiratorial about it

849
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,659
I'm just saying somebody I'm frankly

850
00:34:33,829 --> 00:34:31,919
just saying somebody at Nasa is not

851
00:34:35,210 --> 00:34:33,839
being very bright

852
00:34:36,829 --> 00:34:35,220
um you know Paul Davies at the

853
00:34:38,450 --> 00:34:36,839
University of Arizona agrees with me

854
00:34:41,149 --> 00:34:38,460
he's a you know he's probably well

855
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:41,159
extremely well known in the search for

856
00:34:46,849 --> 00:34:43,919
extraterrestrial life so here you have

857
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:46,859
something that is easily accessible

858
00:34:53,210 --> 00:34:51,359
proof that there could be life on Mars

859
00:34:55,609 --> 00:34:53,220
um and so no one's no one's doing the

860
00:34:56,990 --> 00:34:55,619
right experiment so that is in fact the

861
00:34:58,910 --> 00:34:57,000
purpose of the Copernicus space

862
00:35:01,550 --> 00:34:58,920
corporation that I I'm involved with

863
00:35:03,890 --> 00:35:01,560
with Avi Loeb and Frank lockian and

864
00:35:05,870 --> 00:35:03,900
others there's a whole bunch of uh this

865
00:35:08,810 --> 00:35:05,880
this guy George Church who's a good

866
00:35:11,810 --> 00:35:08,820
colleague he's a superstar genomicist

867
00:35:14,210 --> 00:35:11,820
he's on the board Stephen Wolfram of

868
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:14,220
Mathematica is on the on the Advisory

869
00:35:19,550 --> 00:35:17,760
Board and several Superstar uh um

870
00:35:20,450 --> 00:35:19,560
astrophysicists and physicists from

871
00:35:23,890 --> 00:35:20,460
Harvard

872
00:35:25,910 --> 00:35:23,900
and this little guy from Stanford me

873
00:35:27,890 --> 00:35:25,920
and um you know some of the

874
00:35:30,410 --> 00:35:27,900
conversations have been fantastic and

875
00:35:33,770 --> 00:35:30,420
we're planning to design potential

876
00:35:37,010 --> 00:35:33,780
little cubesats that we will basically

877
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:37,020
spew across the Martian terrain to test

878
00:35:43,490 --> 00:35:42,720
for life you know in ways that uh the

879
00:35:46,370 --> 00:35:43,500
um

880
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:46,380
uh NASA seems to be ignoring it

881
00:35:50,690 --> 00:35:48,000
basically you know it's it's similar to

882
00:35:52,310 --> 00:35:50,700
the obvious uh approach of you know the

883
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:52,320
skies are not classified

884
00:35:58,990 --> 00:35:54,960
Mars is not classified we don't have to

885
00:36:00,770 --> 00:35:59,000
we don't have to roll everything through

886
00:36:04,430 --> 00:36:00,780
NASA

887
00:36:07,609 --> 00:36:04,440
um and so that's sort of an allegory for

888
00:36:09,290 --> 00:36:07,619
how we need to approach the you know the

889
00:36:10,970 --> 00:36:09,300
search for nhi

890
00:36:13,069 --> 00:36:10,980
we need to stop waiting for Daddy

891
00:36:14,089 --> 00:36:13,079
government to give us permission to know

892
00:36:17,210 --> 00:36:14,099
something

893
00:36:20,510 --> 00:36:17,220
and as you've seen there's a whole slew

894
00:36:23,089 --> 00:36:20,520
of you know Grassroots efforts to

895
00:36:24,710 --> 00:36:23,099
collect data uh do the kinds of

896
00:36:27,589 --> 00:36:24,720
interaction you know do the kinds of

897
00:36:29,150 --> 00:36:27,599
studies uh that don't require the

898
00:36:31,069 --> 00:36:29,160
government to tell us it's okay to know

899
00:36:34,250 --> 00:36:31,079
something mm-hmm

900
00:36:35,650 --> 00:36:34,260
yeah I I wonder you you've pointed out

901
00:36:42,290 --> 00:36:35,660
before

902
00:36:44,270 --> 00:36:42,300
Russia has a particularly bad uh uh

903
00:36:47,390 --> 00:36:44,280
track record was getting anything landed

904
00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:47,400
on Mars so strange right and I'm

905
00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:49,440
wondering you know along those lines you

906
00:36:53,030 --> 00:36:51,359
know we have space force now we've had a

907
00:36:55,069 --> 00:36:53,040
confidential space program before that

908
00:36:56,569 --> 00:36:55,079
you know there's the potentiality you

909
00:36:58,730 --> 00:36:56,579
know if if you're thinking about things

910
00:37:00,710 --> 00:36:58,740
that like maybe NASA's not doing stuff

911
00:37:03,589 --> 00:37:00,720
because maybe somebody over there knows

912
00:37:06,770 --> 00:37:03,599
that somebody else already did it in in

913
00:37:09,410 --> 00:37:06,780
a different circumstance it's possible

914
00:37:10,910 --> 00:37:09,420
um but along those lines you know you

915
00:37:12,650 --> 00:37:10,920
talk about the Copernicus space

916
00:37:15,470 --> 00:37:12,660
Corporation it's got these towering

917
00:37:17,089 --> 00:37:15,480
Minds you just mentioned and I I saw on

918
00:37:19,550 --> 00:37:17,099
the website it says we'll begin with

919
00:37:21,950 --> 00:37:19,560
building infrastructure we need a GPS to

920
00:37:24,290 --> 00:37:21,960
provide positioning navigation and

921
00:37:26,510 --> 00:37:24,300
timing around the Moon Mars Titan and

922
00:37:28,970 --> 00:37:26,520
perhaps even Venus and Beyond

923
00:37:31,849 --> 00:37:28,980
and then after that

924
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:31,859
um next you're talking about G like the

925
00:37:37,069 --> 00:37:34,320
small cube satellites and then the next

926
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:37,079
phase is a completely AI powered swarm

927
00:37:40,730 --> 00:37:38,640
this is what it says on the website with

928
00:37:43,130 --> 00:37:40,740
an eye towards Nano and bio probe

929
00:37:45,710 --> 00:37:43,140
Technologies for Ultra long range

930
00:37:47,390 --> 00:37:45,720
exploration it's fascinating I've heard

931
00:37:49,730 --> 00:37:47,400
you speak of environmental challenges

932
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:49,740
we're facing here on Earth considering

933
00:37:54,050 --> 00:37:51,599
how little experience and knowledge we

934
00:37:56,150 --> 00:37:54,060
have about ecosystems on other planets

935
00:37:58,970 --> 00:37:56,160
and moons what is it going to take to

936
00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:58,980
both ensure successful missions and also

937
00:38:04,190 --> 00:38:01,680
maybe more crucially not up in the

938
00:38:05,930 --> 00:38:04,200
ecosystems of other planets and moons

939
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:05,940
with projects like this

940
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:08,160
so one of the first

941
00:38:13,010 --> 00:38:10,800
um uh

942
00:38:15,650 --> 00:38:13,020
sort of rules that we have in

943
00:38:18,170 --> 00:38:15,660
discussions around at the Spokane

944
00:38:19,370 --> 00:38:18,180
critical space Corporation is that we

945
00:38:22,490 --> 00:38:19,380
have to make sure that anything we

946
00:38:24,770 --> 00:38:22,500
introduce is has no living biota on it

947
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:24,780
right so we can't be bringing bacteria I

948
00:38:27,790 --> 00:38:26,640
mean I know Elon Musk plans on stopping

949
00:38:30,170 --> 00:38:27,800
all over the landscape

950
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:30,180
[Laughter]

951
00:38:36,050 --> 00:38:32,640
forget ecological considerations Etc

952
00:38:37,550 --> 00:38:36,060
once you know once Elon gets there I'm

953
00:38:39,230 --> 00:38:37,560
not positive or negative about it I'm

954
00:38:41,510 --> 00:38:39,240
just saying it's like you know here we

955
00:38:44,210 --> 00:38:41,520
are taking we're all acting daintily

956
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:44,220
about what we might send to Mars and the

957
00:38:47,870 --> 00:38:46,320
moment you know a human shows up and

958
00:38:51,710 --> 00:38:47,880
poops on the landscape that's going to

959
00:38:53,329 --> 00:38:51,720
be the end of any you know any uh any

960
00:38:56,990 --> 00:38:53,339
sanity or

961
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:57,000
um sanitary conditions so you think we

962
00:38:59,930 --> 00:38:58,320
would have learned from what we've done

963
00:39:02,270 --> 00:38:59,940
to the ocean and just this Earth in

964
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:02,280
general you know that maybe we shouldn't

965
00:39:07,550 --> 00:39:04,079
start off right away doing that to space

966
00:39:10,490 --> 00:39:07,560
or a different planet so I I I'm not I'm

967
00:39:13,490 --> 00:39:10,500
not as yet worried about investigations

968
00:39:15,530 --> 00:39:13,500
because I know that there are there

969
00:39:17,870 --> 00:39:15,540
aren't rules or laws about it but

970
00:39:20,410 --> 00:39:17,880
there's sort of ethical considerations

971
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:20,420
about making sure that anything we send

972
00:39:27,290 --> 00:39:24,720
uh has minimal uh opportunity for you

973
00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:27,300
know hurting the landscape I mean Mars

974
00:39:32,030 --> 00:39:30,000
is a particularly difficult place to

975
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:32,040
contaminate given the perchlorates in

976
00:39:36,170 --> 00:39:34,320
this in the soil I mean you know you

977
00:39:38,270 --> 00:39:36,180
basically go roll around in the in the

978
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:38,280
dirt on Mars and you'll come back with

979
00:39:42,650 --> 00:39:41,280
like you know third degree burns right I

980
00:39:44,329 --> 00:39:42,660
mean that's how bad it is I mean we're

981
00:39:46,430 --> 00:39:44,339
going to have to go into the lava tubes

982
00:39:50,750 --> 00:39:46,440
and Underground to get away from the

983
00:39:52,370 --> 00:39:50,760
perchlorate uh um uh or you know

984
00:39:55,490 --> 00:39:52,380
um poisons

985
00:39:57,290 --> 00:39:55,500
so I'm not so worried about about Mars I

986
00:39:59,329 --> 00:39:57,300
would be more worried about Europa and

987
00:40:01,970 --> 00:39:59,339
introducing something into the into the

988
00:40:03,710 --> 00:40:01,980
ocean underneath but you know I mean

989
00:40:07,130 --> 00:40:03,720
think about it this way

990
00:40:10,250 --> 00:40:07,140
um I mean Earth is leaving a trail of

991
00:40:11,930 --> 00:40:10,260
biota constantly behind it right we

992
00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:11,940
already know that some of the High

993
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:13,920
Altitude planes that have gone up come

994
00:40:18,589 --> 00:40:16,560
back with having found things stuck to

995
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:18,599
their stuck to the things that are that

996
00:40:22,010 --> 00:40:19,920
are basically floating around in the

997
00:40:24,650 --> 00:40:22,020
upper atmosphere I mean we're we're

998
00:40:27,530 --> 00:40:24,660
basically probably spewing biota all

999
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:27,540
over the solar system as it stands so I

1000
00:40:32,990 --> 00:40:30,720
I would be hard-pressed to not believe

1001
00:40:35,630 --> 00:40:33,000
that there isn't something under the

1002
00:40:37,790 --> 00:40:35,640
ocean already in Europa on Europa that

1003
00:40:42,109 --> 00:40:37,800
either came from us or came from came

1004
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:42,119
from us vmrs uh Etc so

1005
00:40:46,370 --> 00:40:43,680
um and they're probably whatever it is

1006
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:46,380
is probably pretty good at at defending

1007
00:40:49,550 --> 00:40:47,760
itself against the continual

1008
00:40:51,950 --> 00:40:49,560
contamination from Earth

1009
00:40:53,630 --> 00:40:51,960
uh just as we are probably good at

1010
00:40:55,250 --> 00:40:53,640
dealing with any of the continual

1011
00:40:59,210 --> 00:40:55,260
contamination from other

1012
00:41:01,130 --> 00:40:59,220
other biotis spheres in our ecosystem or

1013
00:41:03,890 --> 00:41:01,140
in our solar system

1014
00:41:06,250 --> 00:41:03,900
uh so I'm I'm less concerned about it in

1015
00:41:08,990 --> 00:41:06,260
terms of an accidental but you know

1016
00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:09,000
wholesale colonization of any of these

1017
00:41:12,410 --> 00:41:10,140
places that's a different matter

1018
00:41:19,370 --> 00:41:12,420
altogether and I'll let the ethicists

1019
00:41:27,650 --> 00:41:20,810
um

1020
00:41:30,650 --> 00:41:27,660
you have a current NDA with the

1021
00:41:34,370 --> 00:41:30,660
government for any UFO UAP related uh

1022
00:41:36,829 --> 00:41:34,380
things I just won't answer that okay

1023
00:41:39,710 --> 00:41:36,839
um will you answer if you would testify

1024
00:41:42,290 --> 00:41:39,720
before Congress if you did have one

1025
00:41:45,890 --> 00:41:42,300
testify in front of anybody as necessary

1026
00:41:48,170 --> 00:41:45,900
if I'm called to testify I'm put under

1027
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:48,180
uh some sort of

1028
00:41:52,310 --> 00:41:49,680
I don't know what the right word is if

1029
00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:52,320
I'm legally supposed to testify I will

1030
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:53,280
do so

1031
00:41:59,170 --> 00:41:55,920
right luckily I've not done anything

1032
00:42:00,970 --> 00:41:59,180
that would have to plead the fifth so

1033
00:42:03,710 --> 00:42:00,980
yeah

1034
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:03,720
but I you know but I you know I mean

1035
00:42:10,310 --> 00:42:07,920
look I'm I'm certainly under personal uh

1036
00:42:14,210 --> 00:42:10,320
Oaths and agreements with individuals

1037
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:14,220
that again are less legally obligated I

1038
00:42:18,650 --> 00:42:16,560
I would never give up I mean I'm I'm

1039
00:42:21,470 --> 00:42:18,660
pretty good at being loyal to people

1040
00:42:24,770 --> 00:42:21,480
sure and keeping secrets as necessary

1041
00:42:26,810 --> 00:42:24,780
even though in The Sciences I find it

1042
00:42:27,890 --> 00:42:26,820
very difficult to keep a scientific

1043
00:42:29,930 --> 00:42:27,900
Secret

1044
00:42:32,450 --> 00:42:29,940
if I know that it's going to help people

1045
00:42:34,970 --> 00:42:32,460
but if I'm legally obligated or morally

1046
00:42:37,609 --> 00:42:34,980
obligated to keep something quiet I I

1047
00:42:40,250 --> 00:42:37,619
can be a stone

1048
00:42:42,290 --> 00:42:40,260
wonderful uh any updates on the people

1049
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:42,300
that you know of that were testifying

1050
00:42:47,089 --> 00:42:44,400
under the kind of whistleblower type

1051
00:42:48,770 --> 00:42:47,099
language put into the ndaa do you know

1052
00:42:51,890 --> 00:42:48,780
if they've done that if it's gone well

1053
00:42:53,690 --> 00:42:51,900
anything of that it's gone well and it's

1054
00:42:57,170 --> 00:42:53,700
been in front of the appropriate

1055
00:42:59,390 --> 00:42:57,180
committees and some of the stories are

1056
00:43:01,670 --> 00:42:59,400
mind-blowing

1057
00:43:05,150 --> 00:43:01,680
um and I think if and I've only heard

1058
00:43:07,730 --> 00:43:05,160
you know what they dare tell me uh and

1059
00:43:09,230 --> 00:43:07,740
what I know was more sad about the

1060
00:43:13,849 --> 00:43:09,240
reverse engineering programs and other

1061
00:43:15,890 --> 00:43:13,859
things is uh you know alleged alleged

1062
00:43:17,089 --> 00:43:15,900
uh is

1063
00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:17,099
um

1064
00:43:22,130 --> 00:43:19,740
I mean it's just it's like how could you

1065
00:43:24,829 --> 00:43:22,140
not be interested in this how could you

1066
00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:24,839
not ask the next question and I think

1067
00:43:30,349 --> 00:43:27,599
that's kind of what the dod or whoever

1068
00:43:33,950 --> 00:43:30,359
trying to keep this thing quiet is they

1069
00:43:37,010 --> 00:43:33,960
they know that once they admit

1070
00:43:38,630 --> 00:43:37,020
any element of truth about this the

1071
00:43:42,530 --> 00:43:38,640
torrents of questions that will come

1072
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:42,540
afterwards that demand an answer will be

1073
00:43:48,829 --> 00:43:46,560
unending I mean it really will

1074
00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:48,839
um and so you know I think

1075
00:43:53,210 --> 00:43:51,359
we're you know we're when we're in a

1076
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:53,220
period of fits and starts

1077
00:43:58,430 --> 00:43:56,400
and if we can keep our eye on the ball

1078
00:44:00,109 --> 00:43:58,440
and the world economy doesn't crash

1079
00:44:01,670 --> 00:44:00,119
where everybody says well it's not even

1080
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:01,680
worth spending any time on this because

1081
00:44:06,470 --> 00:44:04,079
we're so busy trying to survive you know

1082
00:44:09,550 --> 00:44:06,480
if we could if we can keep our eye on

1083
00:44:11,870 --> 00:44:09,560
that ball while the Earth or the planet

1084
00:44:14,809 --> 00:44:11,880
re-tethers itself and so back to some

1085
00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:14,819
level of normal normal seed normalcy

1086
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:16,640
normalcy

1087
00:44:21,050 --> 00:44:20,160
morning

1088
00:44:23,089 --> 00:44:21,060
um

1089
00:44:24,589 --> 00:44:23,099
you know I think then

1090
00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:24,599
um you know it's it's moving forward I

1091
00:44:27,530 --> 00:44:26,400
mean just just think of how far it's

1092
00:44:28,670 --> 00:44:27,540
come

1093
00:44:31,910 --> 00:44:28,680
from

1094
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:31,920
you know 10 years ago four years ago a

1095
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:33,839
month ago

1096
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:36,720
um and I I but I I hope that the public

1097
00:44:42,170 --> 00:44:40,079
at large doesn't get he doesn't expect

1098
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:42,180
that just because we've had so much

1099
00:44:46,670 --> 00:44:43,920
movement recently there's not going to

1100
00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:46,680
be a period of retrenchment where the

1101
00:44:50,569 --> 00:44:48,780
powers that be are pushing back and and

1102
00:44:52,430 --> 00:44:50,579
trying to hold things back

1103
00:44:55,970 --> 00:44:52,440
you know I I think there's going to be

1104
00:44:59,930 --> 00:44:55,980
the the fight's not over but what is

1105
00:45:02,089 --> 00:44:59,940
good it's both good and bad with arrow

1106
00:45:04,069 --> 00:45:02,099
they are taking control of the whole

1107
00:45:07,010 --> 00:45:04,079
narrative and Gathering all this

1108
00:45:09,829 --> 00:45:07,020
information I think part of that is you

1109
00:45:11,990 --> 00:45:09,839
know in in finding out where all the

1110
00:45:13,609 --> 00:45:12,000
information is they're simultaneously

1111
00:45:16,730 --> 00:45:13,619
plugging leaks

1112
00:45:19,550 --> 00:45:16,740
so it's it's twofold right it both is

1113
00:45:21,650 --> 00:45:19,560
gathering information and then tamping

1114
00:45:23,089 --> 00:45:21,660
down the potential for leaks and

1115
00:45:24,890 --> 00:45:23,099
reminding people of the roads and I

1116
00:45:26,450 --> 00:45:24,900
think that's a good thing I think it's a

1117
00:45:28,730 --> 00:45:26,460
good thing but

1118
00:45:31,030 --> 00:45:28,740
um so the real question is once they've

1119
00:45:33,470 --> 00:45:31,040
collected this information

1120
00:45:35,809 --> 00:45:33,480
what do they do with it will it really

1121
00:45:38,990 --> 00:45:35,819
go to Congress will there be some sort

1122
00:45:42,710 --> 00:45:39,000
of uh uh you know will will Sean

1123
00:45:45,170 --> 00:45:42,720
Kirkpatrick who I think does want to be

1124
00:45:48,829 --> 00:45:45,180
you know transparent

1125
00:45:50,809 --> 00:45:48,839
um will he be forced by his superiors to

1126
00:45:53,329 --> 00:45:50,819
play a different game and that's an open

1127
00:45:56,450 --> 00:45:53,339
question I mean I I actually have have

1128
00:45:58,609 --> 00:45:56,460
trust and faith in the man

1129
00:46:00,050 --> 00:45:58,619
um but you know just because he might

1130
00:46:02,270 --> 00:46:00,060
want to do something he might still have

1131
00:46:05,210 --> 00:46:02,280
to you know play to the tune of the

1132
00:46:07,849 --> 00:46:05,220
people uh you know that are his his

1133
00:46:10,430 --> 00:46:07,859
superiors and Department of Defense but

1134
00:46:12,290 --> 00:46:10,440
then I think that that's where Biden's

1135
00:46:14,510 --> 00:46:12,300
interagency task force can come into

1136
00:46:18,170 --> 00:46:14,520
play because they might have more

1137
00:46:20,750 --> 00:46:18,180
latitude to release information

1138
00:46:22,130 --> 00:46:20,760
um and so you know I think though that

1139
00:46:23,870 --> 00:46:22,140
again when you're talking to your

1140
00:46:26,030 --> 00:46:23,880
friends or families who are who are

1141
00:46:28,609 --> 00:46:26,040
still thinking about it remind them of

1142
00:46:30,650 --> 00:46:28,619
those two events there's Arrow office

1143
00:46:32,750 --> 00:46:30,660
which is collecting information has and

1144
00:46:36,370 --> 00:46:32,760
has openly stated that they have things

1145
00:46:40,849 --> 00:46:38,809
and still in that kind of box that we

1146
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:40,859
need to give some definition around and

1147
00:46:45,710 --> 00:46:42,720
then you say well and now you've got

1148
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:45,720
Biden who've created an interagency task

1149
00:46:51,050 --> 00:46:48,960
force I mean you've got now now probably

1150
00:46:52,670 --> 00:46:51,060
tens of millions of dollars

1151
00:46:54,589 --> 00:46:52,680
if not hundreds of millions of dollars

1152
00:46:56,990 --> 00:46:54,599
if you represent all these interagency

1153
00:47:00,170 --> 00:46:57,000
task force abilities looking into the

1154
00:47:03,170 --> 00:47:00,180
into the phenomena and remind people

1155
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:03,180
that because of the UAP legislation

1156
00:47:08,089 --> 00:47:06,000
the apertures and filters were opened on

1157
00:47:11,690 --> 00:47:08,099
data collection that actually found

1158
00:47:12,890 --> 00:47:11,700
those balloons and other objects that

1159
00:47:15,050 --> 00:47:12,900
are running around up there that

1160
00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:15,060
previously had been filtered out and so

1161
00:47:21,650 --> 00:47:17,760
exactly as Chris melon

1162
00:47:24,410 --> 00:47:21,660
and Tom DeLonge and uh louisando and

1163
00:47:28,370 --> 00:47:24,420
others behind the scenes had predicted

1164
00:47:30,530 --> 00:47:28,380
we we will see uh what the greater scope

1165
00:47:32,089 --> 00:47:30,540
of threats might be and the greatest

1166
00:47:34,730 --> 00:47:32,099
book of opportunities through this and

1167
00:47:38,510 --> 00:47:34,740
that just blows my mind that here we

1168
00:47:40,849 --> 00:47:38,520
have Elizondo melon and others right

1169
00:47:43,790 --> 00:47:40,859
um in the in the Congress people

1170
00:47:45,770 --> 00:47:43,800
um trying to get things passed a law

1171
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:45,780
passed so that we actually pay attention

1172
00:47:49,190 --> 00:47:47,280
to all the different things in this guys

1173
00:47:51,230 --> 00:47:49,200
let's just throw out a different form of

1174
00:47:54,349 --> 00:47:51,240
Life all together like let's just forget

1175
00:47:56,990 --> 00:47:54,359
that part so we still have all these

1176
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:57,000
unknown even if prosaic objects in the

1177
00:48:01,490 --> 00:47:59,760
in the air and we have no idea what they

1178
00:48:03,470 --> 00:48:01,500
could even you know do what the

1179
00:48:04,609 --> 00:48:03,480
potential is some of which have been

1180
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,619
over like Lawrence Livermore

1181
00:48:09,890 --> 00:48:06,720
Laboratories via Tom Rogan Washington

1182
00:48:12,349 --> 00:48:09,900
examiner story all this kind of stuff so

1183
00:48:15,410 --> 00:48:12,359
this happens they shoot down a few

1184
00:48:17,270 --> 00:48:15,420
objects right in in the Chinese balloon

1185
00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:17,280
no doubt there are more out there and

1186
00:48:20,569 --> 00:48:18,960
they're just not you know going like

1187
00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:20,579
wild west on them like they were

1188
00:48:27,829 --> 00:48:25,440
initially but how could you still doubt

1189
00:48:30,770 --> 00:48:27,839
you know the authenticity

1190
00:48:33,890 --> 00:48:30,780
of a melon or an Elizondo or yourself

1191
00:48:36,349 --> 00:48:33,900
were the Congress people this is it is

1192
00:48:38,329 --> 00:48:36,359
proof that it's a problem it's not proof

1193
00:48:39,650 --> 00:48:38,339
that there's like some other life or

1194
00:48:41,630 --> 00:48:39,660
whatever but it's proof that it's an

1195
00:48:44,510 --> 00:48:41,640
issue that needed to be taken seriously

1196
00:48:46,970 --> 00:48:44,520
instill the media won't even go back for

1197
00:48:49,730 --> 00:48:46,980
another interview with the Elizondo or

1198
00:48:51,710 --> 00:48:49,740
Melon on a CNN or whatever and get

1199
00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:51,720
serious about this it's obviously

1200
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:54,240
something that we need to deal with you

1201
00:48:58,250 --> 00:48:56,160
know why are they so afraid of the alien

1202
00:49:00,109 --> 00:48:58,260
word there's an interesting divide I

1203
00:49:02,030 --> 00:49:00,119
mean I'm uh as I'm saying to somebody

1204
00:49:05,809 --> 00:49:02,040
else this morning

1205
00:49:08,329 --> 00:49:05,819
um you know I'm oh I know left of center

1206
00:49:10,130 --> 00:49:08,339
capitalist you know sort of I'm more of

1207
00:49:13,550 --> 00:49:10,140
a practicalist

1208
00:49:15,170 --> 00:49:13,560
um and yet I have found out there and

1209
00:49:16,730 --> 00:49:15,180
somebody actually told me this this

1210
00:49:20,750 --> 00:49:16,740
morning that they did uh basically a

1211
00:49:22,430 --> 00:49:20,760
survey that uh people who so Democrats

1212
00:49:24,410 --> 00:49:22,440
or

1213
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:24,420
um people who are left are less

1214
00:49:29,630 --> 00:49:26,640
interested in the UAP field

1215
00:49:32,450 --> 00:49:29,640
than are people uh who are who are right

1216
00:49:36,349 --> 00:49:32,460
of Center

1217
00:49:37,550 --> 00:49:36,359
um and so uh that's a that's it I I find

1218
00:49:38,990 --> 00:49:37,560
that interesting because I would have

1219
00:49:41,809 --> 00:49:39,000
actually expected the opposite

1220
00:49:43,849 --> 00:49:41,819
completely but you know maybe it has

1221
00:49:46,130 --> 00:49:43,859
something to do with that people who are

1222
00:49:48,589 --> 00:49:46,140
who are on the right are more interested

1223
00:49:50,390 --> 00:49:48,599
in security and

1224
00:49:53,089 --> 00:49:50,400
um and you know paying attention to

1225
00:49:55,010 --> 00:49:53,099
potential threats uh and people on the

1226
00:49:59,150 --> 00:49:55,020
left are just let's say less less

1227
00:50:03,170 --> 00:49:59,160
worried about it perhaps incorrectly so

1228
00:50:05,170 --> 00:50:03,180
um how do we how do we turn the threat

1229
00:50:07,730 --> 00:50:05,180
narrative into an opportunity narrative

1230
00:50:09,890 --> 00:50:07,740
and how do we get people on the left who

1231
00:50:11,630 --> 00:50:09,900
just don't who think it's just crazy and

1232
00:50:13,609 --> 00:50:11,640
they shouldn't be thinking about it at

1233
00:50:16,250 --> 00:50:13,619
all to now pay attention to it that's

1234
00:50:17,809 --> 00:50:16,260
like CNN so you know CNN let's say a

1235
00:50:19,670 --> 00:50:17,819
little bit more middle of the road and

1236
00:50:21,230 --> 00:50:19,680
you know there's arguments about where

1237
00:50:24,770 --> 00:50:21,240
they're where they're heading are they

1238
00:50:29,210 --> 00:50:27,470
um you know I I think you know getting

1239
00:50:32,089 --> 00:50:29,220
them to

1240
00:50:34,849 --> 00:50:32,099
to accept that this is a something which

1241
00:50:36,710 --> 00:50:34,859
should be discussed is is actually

1242
00:50:38,089 --> 00:50:36,720
already starting to become part of the

1243
00:50:41,690 --> 00:50:38,099
discussion I mean you can go look at the

1244
00:50:44,089 --> 00:50:41,700
Atlantic Monthly uh and Forbes and these

1245
00:50:46,250 --> 00:50:44,099
other uh basically more let's say

1246
00:50:48,410 --> 00:50:46,260
liberal magazines

1247
00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:48,420
um or liberal discussion magazines they

1248
00:50:54,290 --> 00:50:51,839
actually now have articles in them which

1249
00:50:56,210 --> 00:50:54,300
are about the UAP discussion so I think

1250
00:50:58,730 --> 00:50:56,220
it's it's opening but we need to

1251
00:51:01,069 --> 00:50:58,740
continue to discuss it and take it away

1252
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:01,079
from a political discussion of left

1253
00:51:06,549 --> 00:51:03,599
versus right uh and turn it into a

1254
00:51:09,290 --> 00:51:06,559
discussion about Humanity right and our

1255
00:51:11,150 --> 00:51:09,300
goals and again if you talk about

1256
00:51:13,010 --> 00:51:11,160
opportunities

1257
00:51:15,470 --> 00:51:13,020
I think that's a much more easy

1258
00:51:16,930 --> 00:51:15,480
discussion to have than threats you

1259
00:51:19,010 --> 00:51:16,940
started with friends

1260
00:51:21,049 --> 00:51:19,020
melon and Lou did and they got

1261
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:21,059
everybody's attention with it and they

1262
00:51:25,250 --> 00:51:22,559
were right

1263
00:51:27,589 --> 00:51:25,260
uh and you know no matter you know no

1264
00:51:29,270 --> 00:51:27,599
matter if you know uaps and ETS all end

1265
00:51:32,089 --> 00:51:29,280
up going up in smoke and it has nothing

1266
00:51:34,190 --> 00:51:32,099
to do with them at all they we found

1267
00:51:35,510 --> 00:51:34,200
something which was important and we

1268
00:51:37,790 --> 00:51:35,520
found a way that we were being spied

1269
00:51:40,250 --> 00:51:37,800
upon uh that hadn't been recognized

1270
00:51:43,370 --> 00:51:40,260
before and now that threat has been

1271
00:51:46,190 --> 00:51:43,380
extinguished yeah so all of the

1272
00:51:47,450 --> 00:51:46,200
discussion was worth it and so all these

1273
00:51:50,270 --> 00:51:47,460
people who say we shouldn't be looking

1274
00:51:53,089 --> 00:51:50,280
at it I know it's a waste of money

1275
00:51:57,410 --> 00:51:53,099
wrong you were wrong

1276
00:51:59,510 --> 00:51:57,420
don't sit in the corner completely

1277
00:52:01,510 --> 00:51:59,520
you should be ashamed of yourself use

1278
00:52:03,710 --> 00:52:01,520
shame

1279
00:52:06,410 --> 00:52:03,720
very very bad

1280
00:52:08,569 --> 00:52:06,420
yeah I I appreciate that you've talked

1281
00:52:11,150 --> 00:52:08,579
about you know you have to use shame and

1282
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:11,160
gaming the refs in situations like this

1283
00:52:14,750 --> 00:52:12,720
and I think that it's so important that

1284
00:52:17,450 --> 00:52:14,760
you keep it it's it's so great that you

1285
00:52:19,309 --> 00:52:17,460
keep an eye on the ball in terms of like

1286
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:19,319
the mainstream media and what's

1287
00:52:23,150 --> 00:52:20,400
happening in terms of government

1288
00:52:25,910 --> 00:52:23,160
transparency but that really the ball

1289
00:52:30,170 --> 00:52:25,920
for you in some ways is more in the kind

1290
00:52:33,290 --> 00:52:30,180
of VC academic uh private hands and and

1291
00:52:35,210 --> 00:52:33,300
Academia situation because of the the

1292
00:52:37,609 --> 00:52:35,220
ability for more transparent

1293
00:52:39,470 --> 00:52:37,619
communication and

1294
00:52:41,870 --> 00:52:39,480
um and non-classification and all these

1295
00:52:43,790 --> 00:52:41,880
other issues you know uh kind of along

1296
00:52:46,910 --> 00:52:43,800
those lines I've heard you talk about

1297
00:52:49,130 --> 00:52:46,920
people like Don Hoffman and Dr John Mack

1298
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:49,140
before Don Hoffman of the case against

1299
00:52:53,530 --> 00:52:50,880
reality I heard you mentioned it before

1300
00:52:57,069 --> 00:52:53,540
and it sparked this question for me

1301
00:53:00,770 --> 00:52:57,079
who what or who from the the general

1302
00:53:04,190 --> 00:53:00,780
field of anomalous studies ufology would

1303
00:53:07,430 --> 00:53:04,200
you recommend more academics scientists

1304
00:53:09,770 --> 00:53:07,440
and VCS read and for enthusiasts and

1305
00:53:11,150 --> 00:53:09,780
researchers of anomalous studies who

1306
00:53:13,549 --> 00:53:11,160
would you recommend as the most

1307
00:53:15,890 --> 00:53:13,559
advantageous for them to read from say

1308
00:53:18,950 --> 00:53:15,900
the last 50 60 years of mainstream

1309
00:53:23,630 --> 00:53:21,589
well I mean part of the problem with the

1310
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:23,640
UFO area is how

1311
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,119
Akin or close it is to the Paranormal

1312
00:53:31,549 --> 00:53:30,000
um and the what some people would call

1313
00:53:35,089 --> 00:53:31,559
the woo

1314
00:53:37,549 --> 00:53:35,099
um I think the entree that most people I

1315
00:53:40,609 --> 00:53:37,559
know these days that are serious

1316
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:40,619
um VCS and academicians are are entering

1317
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:42,960
this is through the concept of

1318
00:53:47,170 --> 00:53:44,160
consciousness

1319
00:53:50,990 --> 00:53:47,180
so I know any of a number of

1320
00:53:52,970 --> 00:53:51,000
bazillionaires who are following up on

1321
00:53:55,250 --> 00:53:52,980
the use of psychedelics

1322
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:55,260
uh primarily and they're using the

1323
00:54:02,089 --> 00:53:59,040
health utility of psychedelics

1324
00:54:05,150 --> 00:54:02,099
to first of all bring them into the

1325
00:54:07,250 --> 00:54:05,160
mainstream and you can go watch uh how

1326
00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:07,260
to change your mind there's a Netflix I

1327
00:54:09,710 --> 00:54:09,119
think it's on Netflix

1328
00:54:12,829 --> 00:54:09,720
um

1329
00:54:15,650 --> 00:54:12,839
there about the use of psychedelics and

1330
00:54:19,130 --> 00:54:15,660
there was a book on it as well

1331
00:54:22,430 --> 00:54:19,140
um but people are taking that up but

1332
00:54:25,549 --> 00:54:22,440
again right behind the scenes just like

1333
00:54:27,650 --> 00:54:25,559
with the nuts and bolts of UAP right

1334
00:54:30,530 --> 00:54:27,660
behind the scenes is this notion of

1335
00:54:33,589 --> 00:54:30,540
Consciousness and interaction with other

1336
00:54:38,870 --> 00:54:36,230
and this notion of entities that can be

1337
00:54:40,010 --> 00:54:38,880
contacted through you know these you

1338
00:54:41,750 --> 00:54:40,020
know whether they're real or whether

1339
00:54:44,750 --> 00:54:41,760
they're imagining your head I'll leave

1340
00:54:47,630 --> 00:54:44,760
that to others but there's there's a lot

1341
00:54:49,790 --> 00:54:47,640
of money in that and that's opening up

1342
00:54:52,790 --> 00:54:49,800
and that's and that's here in Silicon

1343
00:54:56,089 --> 00:54:52,800
Valley I mean I know this for a fact

1344
00:54:58,190 --> 00:54:56,099
um that's opening up the conversation to

1345
00:54:59,870 --> 00:54:58,200
okay well there's other kinds of

1346
00:55:02,390 --> 00:54:59,880
information that's coming from anomalous

1347
00:55:05,450 --> 00:55:02,400
sources how is that happening where's

1348
00:55:08,089 --> 00:55:05,460
the information coming from uh is there

1349
00:55:10,910 --> 00:55:08,099
uh is there opportunity here

1350
00:55:13,010 --> 00:55:10,920
uh so that's I think that's one and then

1351
00:55:14,930 --> 00:55:13,020
the other are the people who are

1352
00:55:16,970 --> 00:55:14,940
following up on let's say the more nuts

1353
00:55:18,589 --> 00:55:16,980
and bolts aspect of it who are

1354
00:55:21,290 --> 00:55:18,599
interested in understanding the

1355
00:55:22,970 --> 00:55:21,300
structure of these alleged objects and

1356
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:22,980
how they're made and what the commercial

1357
00:55:27,470 --> 00:55:25,680
opportunities might be and again I've

1358
00:55:31,730 --> 00:55:27,480
had any of a number of conversations

1359
00:55:34,069 --> 00:55:31,740
with people with uh you know insane

1360
00:55:36,950 --> 00:55:34,079
amounts of resources let's just say it

1361
00:55:39,530 --> 00:55:36,960
that have said a moment I get my hands

1362
00:55:41,990 --> 00:55:39,540
on something that looks real they will

1363
00:55:44,390 --> 00:55:42,000
throw the money at it

1364
00:55:45,589 --> 00:55:44,400
because they realize the advantage

1365
00:55:47,809 --> 00:55:45,599
yeah

1366
00:55:50,930 --> 00:55:47,819
you know I mean it's just it's just

1367
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:52,309
wonderful

1368
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:54,240
um we only have a little time left maybe

1369
00:55:57,530 --> 00:55:56,160
for a couple more questions Jay do you

1370
00:56:00,710 --> 00:55:57,540
have any more

1371
00:56:01,849 --> 00:56:00,720
oh sure yeah

1372
00:56:03,950 --> 00:56:01,859
okay

1373
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:03,960
um I'll go with hug in the

1374
00:56:09,470 --> 00:56:05,760
microphone so why don't you oh no no no

1375
00:56:13,010 --> 00:56:09,480
worries at all okay so I've got a

1376
00:56:16,370 --> 00:56:13,020
question from here let me

1377
00:56:18,770 --> 00:56:16,380
pause there there okay a question from

1378
00:56:19,569 --> 00:56:18,780
the chat earlier

1379
00:56:22,309 --> 00:56:19,579
um

1380
00:56:23,930 --> 00:56:22,319
not about the middle ball no no no

1381
00:56:25,670 --> 00:56:23,940
nothing about the middle ball right now

1382
00:56:30,309 --> 00:56:25,680
this is actually from Twitter let's go

1383
00:56:37,250 --> 00:56:33,890
I will get to the metal ball when I get

1384
00:56:39,290 --> 00:56:37,260
an appropriate sample they got an answer

1385
00:56:41,150 --> 00:56:39,300
out of you sorry yeah I know people are

1386
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:41,160
out there are dying for it

1387
00:56:47,930 --> 00:56:44,160
um but uh so am I but you know when I

1388
00:56:50,870 --> 00:56:47,940
throw my I throw myself at it

1389
00:56:54,109 --> 00:56:50,880
um it'll be done in the right way but I

1390
00:56:55,670 --> 00:56:54,119
I want to get a hold so okay so I have

1391
00:56:57,589 --> 00:56:55,680
the opportunity to work with one of

1392
00:56:59,690 --> 00:56:57,599
these giant things and somebody wants me

1393
00:57:01,609 --> 00:56:59,700
to do an x-ray of it do you think I'm

1394
00:57:03,770 --> 00:57:01,619
going to bring one of those things into

1395
00:57:05,750 --> 00:57:03,780
the Stanford hospital and say would you

1396
00:57:08,210 --> 00:57:05,760
please x-ray this thing and it explodes

1397
00:57:11,870 --> 00:57:08,220
you know I mean give me the break right

1398
00:57:14,750 --> 00:57:11,880
so no but there are there are some of

1399
00:57:16,670 --> 00:57:14,760
the smaller ones that uh I have access

1400
00:57:19,250 --> 00:57:16,680
to and those are the ones that I can

1401
00:57:21,109 --> 00:57:19,260
study with more you know uh with a more

1402
00:57:24,349 --> 00:57:21,119
limited thing I mean but I mean

1403
00:57:26,750 --> 00:57:24,359
interestingly I got uh I got a call from

1404
00:57:28,250 --> 00:57:26,760
the medical Development Office uh a

1405
00:57:30,230 --> 00:57:28,260
couple of weeks ago and they said we

1406
00:57:34,849 --> 00:57:30,240
just got a big check from an anonymous

1407
00:57:39,410 --> 00:57:34,859
donor for you to work on UAP materials

1408
00:57:41,329 --> 00:57:39,420
amazing out of the blue and

1409
00:57:43,790 --> 00:57:41,339
um you know it's funny because if I get

1410
00:57:45,530 --> 00:57:43,800
it if I if I have a donor who wants to

1411
00:57:47,510 --> 00:57:45,540
give me a million dollars

1412
00:57:49,970 --> 00:57:47,520
Stanford has to validate who that person

1413
00:57:52,430 --> 00:57:49,980
is uh and they need to make sure that

1414
00:57:54,530 --> 00:57:52,440
it's not like a drug and use government

1415
00:57:56,510 --> 00:57:54,540
or something you know somewhere Etc so

1416
00:57:58,609 --> 00:57:56,520
they go through a it goes through a due

1417
00:58:00,410 --> 00:57:58,619
diligence if I get a check from an

1418
00:58:02,210 --> 00:58:00,420
anonymous donor it's okay

1419
00:58:04,430 --> 00:58:02,220
so I can get a big check from an

1420
00:58:06,349 --> 00:58:04,440
anonymous donor I mean God knows who

1421
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:06,359
they might be but

1422
00:58:10,730 --> 00:58:08,400
um I can't get a check from somebody who

1423
00:58:11,990 --> 00:58:10,740
has reputational Hazard right that

1424
00:58:14,690 --> 00:58:12,000
Stanford is willied about the

1425
00:58:16,730 --> 00:58:14,700
reputational hazards so

1426
00:58:20,030 --> 00:58:16,740
um anyway so people who might want to

1427
00:58:22,849 --> 00:58:20,040
send big checks do it anonymously

1428
00:58:25,730 --> 00:58:22,859
very important yeah and I'll give you my

1429
00:58:27,710 --> 00:58:25,740
address and it is going to uh and if it

1430
00:58:29,870 --> 00:58:27,720
goes to Stanford it goes to my uh it

1431
00:58:33,190 --> 00:58:29,880
goes to my uh people are going to accuse

1432
00:58:35,630 --> 00:58:33,200
me of drifting now okay so you know

1433
00:58:37,370 --> 00:58:35,640
you already have you already have so

1434
00:58:39,770 --> 00:58:37,380
many patents in your name nobody needs

1435
00:58:41,930 --> 00:58:39,780
it I don't know if people knew what my

1436
00:58:45,049 --> 00:58:41,940
net worth is they would know that I

1437
00:58:49,010 --> 00:58:47,210
yeah so many of the other days that I

1438
00:58:53,150 --> 00:58:49,020
was worth 400 million I'm like oh no

1439
00:58:55,970 --> 00:58:53,160
it's a little off but I wish yeah but I

1440
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:55,980
mean that's your weekend yeah I've heard

1441
00:59:00,410 --> 00:58:57,839
what kind of car you drive and even that

1442
00:59:03,849 --> 00:59:00,420
should tell people what uh yeah anyway

1443
00:59:09,289 --> 00:59:06,890
okay if you had any kind of contemporary

1444
00:59:12,289 --> 00:59:09,299
Tech equipment during your experiences

1445
00:59:14,329 --> 00:59:12,299
years back armed with what you know now

1446
00:59:16,490 --> 00:59:14,339
it could be lab equipment it could be

1447
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:16,500
anything any kind of detection gear what

1448
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:18,480
you would you have wanted there are

1449
00:59:22,190 --> 00:59:19,920
there things that you would want to be

1450
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:22,200
able to go back and measure or detect

1451
00:59:26,750 --> 00:59:24,240
from your own experiences this is a

1452
00:59:28,190 --> 00:59:26,760
question I mean the object I saw over my

1453
00:59:30,530 --> 00:59:28,200
head I would love to get a piece of that

1454
00:59:34,130 --> 00:59:30,540
I mean when I was 12. I mean that was

1455
00:59:35,930 --> 00:59:34,140
just you know that was a resonant moment

1456
00:59:37,609 --> 00:59:35,940
for me even though I didn't know what it

1457
00:59:39,049 --> 00:59:37,619
was when I saw it it wasn't until years

1458
00:59:41,270 --> 00:59:39,059
later

1459
00:59:42,829 --> 00:59:41,280
um you know the things that I saw in my

1460
00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:42,839
bedroom

1461
00:59:45,410 --> 00:59:43,680
um

1462
00:59:46,970 --> 00:59:45,420
that evening

1463
00:59:50,030 --> 00:59:46,980
um or those evenings couple of evenings

1464
00:59:51,049 --> 00:59:50,040
and the thing I saw outside my window

1465
00:59:53,750 --> 00:59:51,059
um

1466
00:59:55,609 --> 00:59:53,760
it you know I I'm sure I'd love to get I

1467
00:59:58,370 --> 00:59:55,619
I'd love to have confirmatory evidence

1468
01:00:00,410 --> 00:59:58,380
that what I saw was real or wasn't I

1469
01:00:03,470 --> 01:00:00,420
mean I know it wasn't a dream

1470
01:00:05,870 --> 01:00:03,480
um I don't know that it was not imposed

1471
01:00:08,270 --> 01:00:05,880
uh I would love to have had a camera in

1472
01:00:10,130 --> 01:00:08,280
the room at a time

1473
01:00:12,170 --> 01:00:10,140
um you know which didn't exist back in

1474
01:00:14,030 --> 01:00:12,180
the you know in the 60s and 70s that

1475
01:00:15,650 --> 01:00:14,040
would have been in the 60s the things I

1476
01:00:17,450 --> 01:00:15,660
saw in my in my bedroom

1477
01:00:21,349 --> 01:00:17,460
but again I didn't know what they were

1478
01:00:23,270 --> 01:00:21,359
until years later in retrospect uh at

1479
01:00:25,370 --> 01:00:23,280
least they correlated with what other

1480
01:00:27,710 --> 01:00:25,380
people had observed

1481
01:00:29,270 --> 01:00:27,720
um so yeah those would be the things I

1482
01:00:32,510 --> 01:00:29,280
would I would like to have I would like

1483
01:00:34,549 --> 01:00:32,520
to have had simultaneous camera I can

1484
01:00:36,230 --> 01:00:34,559
still see the object I mean how many

1485
01:00:40,490 --> 01:00:36,240
things can you remember from when you

1486
01:00:44,809 --> 01:00:42,530
um and so I'll probably never forget

1487
01:00:47,870 --> 01:00:44,819
that or maybe blabbering in the in the

1488
01:00:50,809 --> 01:00:47,880
old folks home about it no I promise

1489
01:00:54,470 --> 01:00:52,789
thank you so much for your time and I

1490
01:00:56,450 --> 01:00:54,480
know exactly what you mean like uh the

1491
01:00:58,490 --> 01:00:56,460
the things I saw I can see it clear as a

1492
01:01:01,069 --> 01:00:58,500
day in in my head and

1493
01:01:03,109 --> 01:01:01,079
you know there's plenty of reasons that

1494
01:01:06,589 --> 01:01:03,119
all came around during my 20s why that

1495
01:01:10,069 --> 01:01:06,599
shouldn't be the case but but it is so

1496
01:01:11,450 --> 01:01:10,079
um yeah is what it is but I think uh you

1497
01:01:13,549 --> 01:01:11,460
probably have to get going unless

1498
01:01:14,990 --> 01:01:13,559
there's any quick questions Jay that you

1499
01:01:19,250 --> 01:01:15,000
got or anything

1500
01:01:21,650 --> 01:01:19,260
oh okay I'll ask one final one from from

1501
01:01:24,770 --> 01:01:21,660
uh the Twitter here we go

1502
01:01:28,370 --> 01:01:24,780
um many experiencers contact events

1503
01:01:32,089 --> 01:01:28,380
appear to be or people may conceive of

1504
01:01:34,430 --> 01:01:32,099
them as an overall drive for non-human

1505
01:01:38,809 --> 01:01:34,440
intelligence or some other form of an

1506
01:01:41,569 --> 01:01:38,819
advanced species to wake Humanity up to

1507
01:01:43,849 --> 01:01:41,579
the reality of their existence with

1508
01:01:45,289 --> 01:01:43,859
experiencers having different roles in

1509
01:01:58,849 --> 01:01:45,299
this

1510
01:02:02,030 --> 01:01:58,859
more openly

1511
01:02:04,609 --> 01:02:02,040
um did your own experiences uh did you

1512
01:02:06,890 --> 01:02:04,619
feel a necessary Drive

1513
01:02:10,430 --> 01:02:06,900
um to do this given your own experiences

1514
01:02:14,510 --> 01:02:10,440
I mean well look later in terms of

1515
01:02:15,770 --> 01:02:14,520
advocacy yes I mean having realized what

1516
01:02:20,630 --> 01:02:15,780
it was

1517
01:02:22,250 --> 01:02:20,640
might have been uh certainly has driven

1518
01:02:23,390 --> 01:02:22,260
me I mean especially if you I mean look

1519
01:02:24,829 --> 01:02:23,400
if you're a scientist and you're

1520
01:02:26,569 --> 01:02:24,839
interested in puzzles

1521
01:02:29,210 --> 01:02:26,579
something which is almost an almost

1522
01:02:31,490 --> 01:02:29,220
unsolvable puzzle is going to just draw

1523
01:02:32,630 --> 01:02:31,500
you further further in so in a way I

1524
01:02:34,970 --> 01:02:32,640
have to admit it's a bit of an

1525
01:02:37,309 --> 01:02:34,980
assumption for me and part of the

1526
01:02:39,650 --> 01:02:37,319
obsession is because I don't like people

1527
01:02:40,670 --> 01:02:39,660
telling me that I'm wrong when I know

1528
01:02:42,530 --> 01:02:40,680
I'm right

1529
01:02:46,190 --> 01:02:42,540
you know one of the reasons I've

1530
01:02:48,829 --> 01:02:46,200
succeeded is when I know I write but I

1531
01:02:50,750 --> 01:02:48,839
use the energy of their negativity to

1532
01:02:53,089 --> 01:02:50,760
drive me forward I use their negative

1533
01:02:55,670 --> 01:02:53,099
energy to create a force field that

1534
01:02:58,250 --> 01:02:55,680
drives me forward and

1535
01:02:59,930 --> 01:02:58,260
um so to basically say no I was right if

1536
01:03:00,890 --> 01:02:59,940
I'm wrong I'm more than happy to admit

1537
01:03:03,410 --> 01:03:00,900
it yeah

1538
01:03:06,109 --> 01:03:03,420
yeah but um you know frankly I'm often

1539
01:03:07,250 --> 01:03:06,119
more right than I'm wrong and so it's at

1540
01:03:10,190 --> 01:03:07,260
least in The Sciences I don't get

1541
01:03:12,530 --> 01:03:10,200
involved in a problem that I don't think

1542
01:03:14,809 --> 01:03:12,540
is solvable or at least provably

1543
01:03:16,789 --> 01:03:14,819
interesting

1544
01:03:19,970 --> 01:03:16,799
um so you know

1545
01:03:21,650 --> 01:03:19,980
yes I think that it does those kinds of

1546
01:03:23,690 --> 01:03:21,660
things do drive people forward was that

1547
01:03:25,549 --> 01:03:23,700
the nature of your question yeah in

1548
01:03:26,870 --> 01:03:25,559
general the question from it's a from a

1549
01:03:29,329 --> 01:03:26,880
guy named Oak

1550
01:03:32,089 --> 01:03:29,339
um is his question in general was like

1551
01:03:34,370 --> 01:03:32,099
is this is is part of this drive why you

1552
01:03:37,549 --> 01:03:34,380
do this do you feel driven by your

1553
01:03:39,530 --> 01:03:37,559
contact experience or your your citing

1554
01:03:40,970 --> 01:03:39,540
um do you I guess it's kind of like

1555
01:03:42,710 --> 01:03:40,980
getting towards the mutual enactment

1556
01:03:44,030 --> 01:03:42,720
hypothesis where there's some kind of

1557
01:03:46,670 --> 01:03:44,040
dialogue happening here or something

1558
01:03:49,670 --> 01:03:46,680
like that oh well yeah I mean I think

1559
01:03:51,349 --> 01:03:49,680
yes I'm I'm driven for that and so you

1560
01:03:54,589 --> 01:03:51,359
know maybe it shows itself to a hundred

1561
01:03:56,630 --> 01:03:54,599
people and and 10 decide that it's worth

1562
01:03:58,250 --> 01:03:56,640
following through on and I just want to

1563
01:03:59,809 --> 01:03:58,260
see that as an intelligence test frankly

1564
01:04:01,250 --> 01:03:59,819
I think if you if you're showing

1565
01:04:03,530 --> 01:04:01,260
something so interesting and you don't

1566
01:04:06,829 --> 01:04:03,540
pay attention to it well I think you're

1567
01:04:09,710 --> 01:04:06,839
maybe below the the but below the below

1568
01:04:14,390 --> 01:04:09,720
the the level of interest

1569
01:04:15,349 --> 01:04:14,400
um and um so you know it it certainly

1570
01:04:17,329 --> 01:04:15,359
um

1571
01:04:19,190 --> 01:04:17,339
so in science

1572
01:04:21,410 --> 01:04:19,200
the way you would write in a discussion

1573
01:04:23,210 --> 01:04:21,420
having shown all this evidence you would

1574
01:04:25,789 --> 01:04:23,220
say

1575
01:04:27,650 --> 01:04:25,799
it is consistent with the data to state

1576
01:04:29,870 --> 01:04:27,660
that

1577
01:04:31,730 --> 01:04:29,880
so again this is all the language of

1578
01:04:33,650 --> 01:04:31,740
science where you're caveating the hell

1579
01:04:36,770 --> 01:04:33,660
out of everything

1580
01:04:39,230 --> 01:04:36,780
um is it is consistent with the

1581
01:04:41,150 --> 01:04:39,240
observations of all of these things that

1582
01:04:43,789 --> 01:04:41,160
show themselves to people

1583
01:04:46,569 --> 01:04:43,799
that a conclusion could be made

1584
01:04:49,569 --> 01:04:46,579
that it is a process of of

1585
01:04:52,730 --> 01:04:49,579
acclimatization

1586
01:04:55,190 --> 01:04:52,740
to the knowledge and it's basically as I

1587
01:04:58,309 --> 01:04:55,200
said to me at least it's an intelligence

1588
01:04:59,450 --> 01:04:58,319
test who can see what's right in front

1589
01:05:02,390 --> 01:04:59,460
of us

1590
01:05:04,849 --> 01:05:02,400
and come to the correct conclusion or

1591
01:05:06,910 --> 01:05:04,859
come to a correct conclusion and act

1592
01:05:09,890 --> 01:05:06,920
upon it

1593
01:05:12,470 --> 01:05:09,900
you know if you can if you can see it

1594
01:05:16,670 --> 01:05:12,480
and ignore it

1595
01:05:19,670 --> 01:05:16,680
then you know you run the risk of uh an

1596
01:05:21,650 --> 01:05:19,680
opportunity missed

1597
01:05:23,809 --> 01:05:21,660
beautiful

1598
01:05:26,450 --> 01:05:23,819
so that's how I think about it

1599
01:05:28,910 --> 01:05:26,460
what a freaking trick question that's

1600
01:05:31,670 --> 01:05:28,920
great that's great okay I've got one

1601
01:05:34,250 --> 01:05:31,680
more uh kind of a fun question and and

1602
01:05:35,870 --> 01:05:34,260
we can get out of here today if you have

1603
01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:35,880
the choice of another Advanced

1604
01:05:40,490 --> 01:05:38,160
civilization's history book mass

1605
01:05:43,069 --> 01:05:40,500
textbook or the equivalent of their

1606
01:05:47,329 --> 01:05:43,079
literature literature primer which would

1607
01:05:53,390 --> 01:05:50,829
um also wait there was history

1608
01:05:55,309 --> 01:05:53,400
or math

1609
01:05:57,470 --> 01:05:55,319
wow that's a tough one

1610
01:05:59,870 --> 01:05:57,480
um frankly I would go just because I

1611
01:06:01,430 --> 01:05:59,880
like math I would go for the math

1612
01:06:02,510 --> 01:06:01,440
um assuming that the math was different

1613
01:06:04,190 --> 01:06:02,520
enough

1614
01:06:05,690 --> 01:06:04,200
that maybe they have Concepts that

1615
01:06:08,990 --> 01:06:05,700
explain the universe in different ways

1616
01:06:12,170 --> 01:06:09,000
and again opportunity I mean literature

1617
01:06:16,069 --> 01:06:12,180
certainly is interesting but it would

1618
01:06:19,730 --> 01:06:16,079
have to be so deep as to reflect their

1619
01:06:21,589 --> 01:06:19,740
uh assumptions about the universe right

1620
01:06:24,069 --> 01:06:21,599
because that's how literature develops

1621
01:06:27,170 --> 01:06:24,079
it develops on your cultures the history

1622
01:06:29,270 --> 01:06:27,180
I mean I mean sure I mean I was always

1623
01:06:31,370 --> 01:06:29,280
interested in like I was more interested

1624
01:06:33,109 --> 01:06:31,380
in ancient Greek history history than I

1625
01:06:35,210 --> 01:06:33,119
was in American history or European

1626
01:06:37,490 --> 01:06:35,220
History Nice

1627
01:06:40,250 --> 01:06:37,500
um I just felt that it was just so

1628
01:06:42,049 --> 01:06:40,260
different and I loved the gods and the

1629
01:06:44,809 --> 01:06:42,059
mythologies and everything I you know

1630
01:06:46,370 --> 01:06:44,819
that was all so yes I'm interested in it

1631
01:06:47,809 --> 01:06:46,380
but

1632
01:06:49,670 --> 01:06:47,819
you know I was never really interested

1633
01:06:51,410 --> 01:06:49,680
in philosophy because it always seemed

1634
01:06:53,630 --> 01:06:51,420
that the kids who did well in philosophy

1635
01:06:56,450 --> 01:06:53,640
are the ones who agreed with the with

1636
01:06:58,069 --> 01:06:56,460
the ideas of the professor and if I

1637
01:06:59,809 --> 01:06:58,079
didn't agree with them I couldn't you

1638
01:07:02,510 --> 01:06:59,819
know I wouldn't get a good grade but I

1639
01:07:03,950 --> 01:07:02,520
could always agree or disagree with a

1640
01:07:06,289 --> 01:07:03,960
science Professor because I could prove

1641
01:07:08,569 --> 01:07:06,299
or disprove or be disproven

1642
01:07:10,730 --> 01:07:08,579
uh and then it would be a finality to it

1643
01:07:15,789 --> 01:07:10,740
so I would say math

1644
01:07:20,690 --> 01:07:17,329
Erasure

1645
01:07:23,029 --> 01:07:20,700
there you go awesome amazing all right

1646
01:07:24,890 --> 01:07:23,039
well thank you yeah thank you so much

1647
01:07:26,390 --> 01:07:24,900
for your time it means so much to me

1648
01:07:28,069 --> 01:07:26,400
it's never long enough you're such a

1649
01:07:29,450 --> 01:07:28,079
brilliant guy and it was just a truly

1650
01:07:32,809 --> 01:07:29,460
privilege and honor to speak with you

1651
01:07:35,809 --> 01:07:32,819
and I mean that thank you and unders

1652
01:07:38,750 --> 01:07:35,819
he's a he's a DJ on Soundcloud go listen

1653
01:07:40,849 --> 01:07:38,760
to unders I like his stuff unders okay

1654
01:07:43,210 --> 01:07:40,859
we'll do thank you so much Gary it's

1655
01:07:46,309 --> 01:07:43,220
wonderful to talk to you today thank you

1656
01:07:47,870 --> 01:07:46,319
so much appreciate it

1657
01:07:49,490 --> 01:07:47,880
but sorry I wasn't able to get everybody

1658
01:07:52,250 --> 01:07:49,500
on there

1659
01:07:54,650 --> 01:07:52,260
beautifully

1660
01:07:57,410 --> 01:07:54,660
okay uh

1661
01:07:59,630 --> 01:07:57,420
there we go great all right awesome that

1662
01:08:03,710 --> 01:07:59,640
was absolutely absolutely wonderful uh

1663
01:08:06,410 --> 01:08:03,720
just a of a a blur but at night

1664
01:08:08,930 --> 01:08:06,420
fantastic blur never long enough

1665
01:08:10,670 --> 01:08:08,940
yeah if you and later I'm gonna be like

1666
01:08:13,609 --> 01:08:10,680
oh I should ask

1667
01:08:17,329 --> 01:08:13,619
of course and if people are thirsty for

1668
01:08:20,269 --> 01:08:17,339
more more Dr Gary Nolan he is going to

1669
01:08:24,309 --> 01:08:20,279
be showing up on the next episode uh on

1670
01:08:30,470 --> 01:08:27,470
that's right of UFOs investigating the

1671
01:08:34,010 --> 01:08:30,480
unknown uh the show that uh Leslie Kane

1672
01:08:37,430 --> 01:08:34,020
has uh been a a Consulting producer on

1673
01:08:38,870 --> 01:08:37,440
and uh and narrates in general but uh

1674
01:08:40,849 --> 01:08:38,880
yeah Gary's gonna be showing up on that

1675
01:08:43,789 --> 01:08:40,859
as well so if if you'd like to see more

1676
01:08:47,110 --> 01:08:43,799
Gary uh feel free to tune in on Monday

1677
01:08:51,950 --> 01:08:47,120
and Tuesday next week for sure

1678
01:08:53,150 --> 01:08:51,960
yeah yeah great end to the week and I

1679
01:08:54,289 --> 01:08:53,160
guess we'll see you Wednesday which I'm

1680
01:08:56,689 --> 01:08:54,299
looking forward to we don't have a guess

1681
01:08:58,729 --> 01:08:56,699
so we can you know kind of just uh riff

1682
01:08:59,930 --> 01:08:58,739
and I love those sessions with you so

1683
01:09:01,910 --> 01:08:59,940
I'm looking forward to absolutely

1684
01:09:03,650 --> 01:09:01,920
wonderful cool thanks everybody in the

1685
01:09:06,110 --> 01:09:03,660
chat thanks for everybody watching now

1686
01:09:09,169 --> 01:09:06,120
thanks to everybody that is watching

1687
01:09:11,510 --> 01:09:09,179
from the future and uh and we'll see you

1688
01:09:18,420 --> 01:09:11,520
next time I love you buddy love you too

1689
01:09:23,450 --> 01:09:20,829
[Music]

1690
01:09:24,890 --> 01:09:23,460
a little due respect to the Air Force I